Which oil for a FOrd Crate 351 / 385HP

[dan512]

Hi guys,

I started a thread over in the SPF subforum, but have been getting all kind of different answers.

Figured here might be a better place to ask this.

I don't wanna repost the same question so here's the link

European ignorance: What oil and oil filter?

The oil filter question was solved btw, already got it.

I'd appreciate every input.

Dan

[RET_COP]

GIBBS Driven Hot Rod Oil, Amsoil Z-Rod oil. The formulas are good for what we use our cars for. If you just race, go with racing oil version of Gibbs Driven or Brad Penn. There or others that are good, Redline, Lucas, Valvoline VR1 ect. You'll rightfully get alot of answers but this is what I use. Viscosity depends on clearances in the engine, conditions you drive in, I usually get the lightest oil that gives m the pressure I need. I like my oil to flow through the bearing not get backed up. Synthetic, Dino or a blend, whew this is getting to complicated Lol. I've tried them all, right now I'm using Amsoil Z-Rod 10w-30 synthetic, so far I like it. I have an old style 351w 1979 block and all is well.

[Ron61]

Find out what oil the engine builder used to break it in and check it with. That is normally a safe way to go. For racing I use Rotella 15/40 in one car and Mobil Super sync 15/50 in the other as that is what the engine builders used and I haven't had a problem. But there are a lot of good oils out there and how you plan the car can be used in determining which one you chose.

Ron

[dan512]

The engine details are here http://www.fordracingparts.com/downl...6007-A351R.pdf

The clearances don't tell me much, don't know if that's good or not.

The engine is from 2003 and has 10k miles on it.

I won't be racing the car, maybe a 1-2 track days a year, but 95-98% a mix of fast and curvy road driving and cruising.

Ford recommends 20W50, the previous owner used 15W50. On my other thread I got replies from 5W30 over 10W40 and 15W50 up to 20W50, so I'm now completely lost.

And to make since harder, since I live in Europe, I can't get all the American oils.

To put it differently, what oil pressures (at idle and higher up) and oil temperatures should I expect to make sure I'm in the right neighborhood oil-wise.

Dan

[kayakjack]

Dan,

It is confusing isn't it?

I own Superformance 1202. A little older than yours. Same engine. Ford Motorsport 351w 385hp.

It had about 13,000 miles on it when I bought it November 2006. About 22,000 now.

I asked the same questions when I bought it. I went with Mobil 1 fully synthetic 0w40. Engine runs around 60 pounds of pressure. Temps are around 80 C at equilibrium. A bit cooler when it is cold outside. Only runs hotter if I stand at idle without the cooling fans or in summer if I run it hard. Not much hotter though.

The engine has been bulletproof. No problems.

Jack

[ha_pe_1968]

Hi Dan!

True, it is not easy to get american brand oil in Europe - had the same question 3 years ago too. Got lots of response and after reading i had no idea what to use cause auf the different opinions.

I use Valvoline VR1 Racing 20W50 at my Roush 427R - no problems till now and easy to get in Europe (and the price is ok too)

Wish you a great day and much fun with your Cobra!

Greetings from Austria
Peter

[bobcowan]

The Ford crate engines are built with fairly tight bearing clearances, specifically for street use. So you don't need a thick/heavy oil to maintain pressure. Use a 5W-30 or a 10W-30 and you'll be fine.

If you plan on racing - like road racing - then consider one of the synthetic oils for better heat resistance. In this country, there are only 4 true synthetics on the market, and Mobile 1 isn't one of them.

If it's going to be your fun toy and week end cruiser, use any good dino oil and change it every 5,000 miles or so.

[madmaxx]

Anything will work!!! Target 55-60 psig at 6Krpm's. at 80C. Once again anything will work. I have found with each set up in viscosity you gain about 5-7psig. so if you went from 10W40 to 20W50 i went from 57 psig to 63 psig. 10W30 to 10W40 was 55 psig to 60 psig. Once again any will work. I had an engine that went from 52 psig to 42 psig at 6Krpm and the engine was immaculate. to make a long painful story short in the end the culprit was a oil pump with loose tolerances. I tried 20W50 and the oil pressure went from 57 to 52. when i replaced the oil pump the 20W50 was 67 psig!!! at 80c and pegging the gauge at 75 psig when cold. I changed to 10w40 and it is now 55 at 3Krpm and goes to 61 psig at 6krpm. as far as idle without a specific rpm given its meaningless. 200 rpm will gain 10 psig oil at idle, anything above 30 would be more than adequate even 25 at idle forces are low low low.

[RET_COP]

Anything may work on a average crate engine but I would advise you to get the right oil for anything high end, flat tappet, and high spring pressures. I can tel you that the oils i mentioned actually feel different. Try wiping a tool off or your hands after getting some on it.

[madmaxx]

his is a roller engine with reasonable spring pressures. Pretty generic as far as oil goes.

[lippy]

I use Brad Penn 30W in my Cobra as recommended by Brent, and I've used Penn and Gibbs in my old Vette. High zinc oils are good for cars that may sit a few weeks in between drives.

[JCoop]

If you drive your car during colder temps like 30º-40º, try Royal Purple's 0W40. this is what I've been using on my big block crate 460. I think it's great!

[dan512]

Originally Posted by JCoop

If you drive your car during colder temps like 30º-40º, try Royal Purple's 0W40. this is what I've been using on my big block crate 460. I think it's great!

30°-40° ist not for me, took a 1 hour spin the other day at 50° and that was cold enough

Thanks guys, it's getting much clearer. I guess I was also worrying too much.

I checked and I can get Valvoline VR1 over here in 20W-50 and 10W-60.

I'll give it a try mixing both, should end up with an 15W55.

[madmaxx]

I have never heard of 60wt, just use grease!

[bobcowan]

Originally Posted by dan512

I checked and I can get Valvoline VR1 over here in 20W-50 and 10W-60.

I'll give it a try mixing both, should end up with an 15W55.

That is definitely a bad idea.

During start up, a thick oil like 15W or 20W will not lube your engine very well. You've probably heard that the majority of engine wear occurs at start up; and that is generally true. Thicker oil when cold will make that worse.

Viscosity of oil is measured at a standard temperature. a 5W oil will pour like 5 weight oil that's been chilled below 0*. So buy a quart of 20W-50 oil, and put it in the freezer. In the morning, try and pour it out.

Thicker oils when hot do not provide any additional benefit in longevity or performance. The do require more energy to move around, and put more strain on components like oil pump drive shafts and distributor gears. You've heard of people shearing the gear pin, and this is how it happens.

You need a thick enough oil to maintain proper oil pressure in all conditions. Anything more is a waste of energy. Start with a 5W-30 and see what you get. If you're dead set on a heavy oil, use a 5W-40 or 0W-40.

[GregAgrest]

Dan

I just had a 351/408 stroker built by Keith Craft. They recommend Joe Gibbs Driven HR 10-30W As a matter of fact they require I use it to maintain their warranty

[Maurice Butler]

What kind of oil should I use?


This is a fantastic article written by Dr. A. E. Haas at Ferrarichat.com. The poster has edited most of the spelling errors and grammar, and shortened the article to just the first four chapters/lessons.

[dan512]

Originally Posted by bobcowan

That is definitely a bad idea.

During start up, a thick oil like 15W or 20W will not lube your engine very well. You've probably heard that the majority of engine wear occurs at start up; and that is generally true. Thicker oil when cold will make that worse.

Viscosity of oil is measured at a standard temperature. a 5W oil will pour like 5 weight oil that's been chilled below 0*. So buy a quart of 20W-50 oil, and put it in the freezer. In the morning, try and pour it out.

Thicker oils when hot do not provide any additional benefit in longevity or performance. The do require more energy to move around, and put more strain on components like oil pump drive shafts and distributor gears. You've heard of people shearing the gear pin, and this is how it happens.

You need a thick enough oil to maintain proper oil pressure in all conditions. Anything more is a waste of energy. Start with a 5W-30 and see what you get. If you're dead set on a heavy oil, use a 5W-40 or 0W-40.

I read you Bob, makes sense too, but then why does Ford recommend 20W50 an why do so many engine builders recommend heavier stuff also?

Not an easy topic I'm tackling here

[dan512]

Originally Posted by Maurice Butler

What kind of oil should I use?


This is a fantastic article written by Dr. A. E. Haas at Ferrarichat.com. The poster has edited most of the spelling errors and grammar, and shortened the article to just the first four chapters/lessons.

Wow, impressive! I was concerned about cold start. So guess I will give 10 or 15W-40 a try then see what oil pressures it gets me.

Now I only need to find an oil in that class with high ZDDP content, available in Europe. AAAAAAAAAHHHHH

[Dwight]

someone stated in another thread that an engine with a main bearing clearance of .0027 or more needs heavier weight oil.


Dwight