Starting Motor After Long Term Storage?

[AL427SBF]

Need advice on starting an engine after long term storage. Think of it as -
What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Motor: Turnkey all aluminum DART 427, carbureted
Pre-Storage Prep: None, crate motor run-in briefly by builder, fluids drained and delivered to a shop where it sat.
Storage Duration: 3.5 years, no environmental controls for the most part but also no exposed openings on the motor (exhaust ports covered etc.)

Now it's time to bring her back to life and I want to be VERY CAREFUL how I do that, much invested in this little motor. Thoughts that come to mind are ...

- do I worry about valve springs and hysteresis?
- making sure I prime oil critical passages/components and pumps.
- pistons, give them a shot of oil through the plug holes to lube the cylinder walls?
- hand crank the engine over (plugs out) before I turn the key?

But that's me winging it, I need a step by step dissertation on what to do, I'm no motor head but willing to learn.
I'll make a "to do" list and put everything in order on what needs to be done - thanks for the help.
.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Need advice on starting an engine after long term storage. Think of it as -
What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Motor: Turnkey all aluminum DART 427, carbureted
Pre-Storage Prep: None, crate motor run-in briefly by builder, fluids drained and delivered to a shop where it sat.
Storage Duration: 3.5 years, no environmental controls for the most part but also no exposed openings on the motor (exhaust ports covered etc.)

Now it's time to bring her back to life and I want to be VERY CAREFUL how I do that, much invested in this little motor. Thoughts that come to mind are ...

- do I worry about valve springs and hysteresis?
- making sure I prime oil critical passages/components and pumps.
- pistons, give them a shot of oil through the plug holes to lube the cylinder walls?
- hand crank the engine over (plugs out) before I turn the key?

But that's me winging it, I need a step by step dissertation on what to do, I'm no motor head but willing to learn.
I'll make a "to do" list and put everything in order on what needs to be done - thanks for the help.
.

I'd pull the distributor and run a drill with an oil pump primer,pull the valve covers first and when priming,see that oil in coming out of the pushrods,flooding everything up top with oil......

then pull the plugs,give each cylinder a good shot of WD40,then turn the engine over by hand a few revolutions,reprime the oil pump.....

Fill the carb up with gas thru the vent tubes,work the accelerator pump by hand till you see gas coming out of the squirters.......

Re-install the distributor/plugs and fire it up..........watch the oil pressure gauge,it should come up really quick,if it doesn't,shut off the engine and re-prime the oil pump and you should be good to go......

Let it come up to temp before revving it up......

David

[AL427SBF]

Thanks David, just the info I need!
.

[twobjshelbys]

Do the above then get it to operating temperature and drain everything liquid from it. Start with engine oil and coolant. Then drive it t lo get it good and warm and change clutch and brake and differential fluids and oils. Anything that runs get rid of it and start over. I'd also advise changing all belts and hoses in the process.

And don't forget tires. They probably have flat spots and are likely checked. They might be ok for casual street use but any spirited driving especially on the track would not be advised.

Don't forget a new battery.

Edit: is this a car or just the engine? If engine I would still do the first half of changing everything that flows

[Jac Mac]

Agree with most of above, but with regard for the cam & lifters I would remove the rocker gear before priming oil pressure with battery drill on old dizzy minus gear, prime until you get oil up thru pushrods, then turn crankshaft at least two full turns with plugs out while still maintaining oil pressure with drill, this is about the most you can do to ensure cam lobes have some oil before refitting rocker gear for first start. I would also fill the cooling system with hot [ not boiling hot ] water and allow it to sink into the block /heads before starting. Make sure you have valves lashed, dizzy timed correctly, carb/s full of fuel & wiring correct so it fires first hit, allow it to run for a few seconds to ensure OK for oil pressure & correct sound then take it up to ~2000/2500 and hold it there for a couple of minutes, bring it back down to idle speed for about 10 seconds then shut it down, have a good look around for any problems, check ignition timing with light and if all OK try a longer run, Keep idling periods to a minimum.

[750hp]

So how did you go?

[vector1]

Make sure your gas is good, fluids up to right level, fire it up. By the time it fires your oil pressure will be coming up, bring it up to about 2000 rpm and let it ride till you're comfortable. Smile and grin at the sound of a good running engine, then get the rest of the car done!

[blykins]

What climate has it been in? Not a good situation for an engine to sit for years. Condensation will cause rust spots on cylinder walls. Seals dry out because the oil/assembly lube wicks off after time.

If it wasn't dyno'd, there may be a greater cause for concern. You're now dealing with rings that haven't been seated, but are now going to ride across dry and possibly rusty cylinder sleeves.

I would squirt some oil or WD in each cylinder, fill the engine with oil, then prime the poop out of it with a priming tool. Roll the engine over by hand turn by turn while priming.

Go over all the external fasteners.

Keep in mind that since it's in an "un-broken-in" state, I would do this, fire it, then drive it as soon as possible and for as long as possible.

If you're not sure on how to get the distributor back in the right spot so it will fire, we can help you with that.

[AL427SBF]

Great advice guys, it's all going down on the "to-do" list.

Mark, check your PMs, we're going to become buds before this is over

Brent, I'm willing to bet that if you asked 10 motorheads to place a thumbtack on a US map for the worst location to store an engine, at least 3 would land in northeast Okla. which was where my motor was stored for 3.5 years.

I definitely have concerns about the internals, what you mentioned plus valve springs - some being in a compressed state all that time? That's why I'm pinging you guys with experience, want to mitigate the risk of damage as much as possible. I will prime the sh!t out of that motor before trying to start.
.

[sea2jet]

If rust did form in the cylinders from condensation, could you use a bore scope through the plug holes to inspect for pitting? If the engine has run after storage, would the pitting still be visible, or would the rings smooth out the bore? I'm just curious.

[AL427SBF]

Maybe I can take some preemptive measures now? Should I give the cylinders a shot of WD-40 as it will be several months before the headers and sidepipes are on (plus whatever else needs to be done) for 1st start. I don't want to gunk things up either if that's what will happen if it sits several months after doing that.
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[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by sea2jet

If rust did form in the cylinders from condensation, could you use a bore scope through the plug holes to inspect for pitting? If the engine has run after storage, would the pitting still be visible, or would the rings smooth out the bore? I'm just curious.

Good questions, I would like to know that myself. (understanding the closer to TDC a piston is, the less wall you could view)
.

[Richard Hudgins]

Brett,

You are making a mountain out of a molehill on your motor.

I am sure that the experts will say that I am absolutely full of it and things would be best if my advice was quietly but firmly ignored in order not to encourage similar behaviour from others.

But that said......

1. NEVER EVER (Got that?) put WD-40 on new bores in an assembled engine. It is a very good solvent and it will wash the assembly lube right out of the cross-hatching in the bores. You need that lube on the bores. Note: It is very good at water displacement and low pressure temporary lubrication of lightly loaded assemblies.

2. If the engine was started prior to coming to you (or wherever) there will be lube in the bores and on everything else. All that is needed is for you to remove the valve covers and squirt some oil on the rockers at the valves, reinstall rocker covers, put in the break-in oil, then remove the plugs and spin the engine on the starter until you show good pressure for 30 seconds or so. You will note that there is no load on anything without the plugs in. (I know there is some rubbing action going on but it will not be sufficient to brings things to a "happy ending" as we say in the trades.)

3. Put the plugs in and start the bloody thing. Bring it to temperature at a fast idle, all the while checking for leaks etc. If all is good, button it up and then proceed to drive it like you stole it....

Note:If you really wish to be anal, then remove the distributor and turn the oil pump with a drill to build pressure as this will make you feel better. The motor will not care as the surfaces are not moving so there will not be any coating of things such as rod bearings, main bearings, cam bearings, and rocker arm bearings or rocker roller to valve stem contact areas, piston rings or bores, etc. etc. etc.

But the oil pump gears will certainly get lubed and then upon reassembly, odds are that your distributor will be mis-aligned by at least a cylinder. This will give you many hours of entertainment trying to figure out why the combustion process is occurring on the outside of your engine just above the carburetor inlet while simultaneously shooting flames out of the sidepipes and lighting the cats hair . Once that combustion phenomenon is sorted out and you finally get to fire it up, you will start to wonder why your exhaust headers are glowing red and the damn timing light is blinking on a mostly blank section of your dynamic balancer.

I could go on....but my nurse is here with my special elixir.

ps: Springs fail from use, not from being held in a position. (Unless you are exceeding the elastic limits at that hold point of course.)

[Jac Mac]

Hmmm, weren't you the guy quite happily putting new bearing shells in your flat plane crank F5000 engine every 1.5hrs......

[blykins]

Mr. Hudgins,

I respect your knowledge and experience when it comes to chassis design, but I think I'm gonna disagree with your priorities on AL's engine start.

After 3.5 years, there will be no oil on the cylinders/pistons/rings. There will most likely be no oil up top either....on the cam, lifters, etc., and all the oil has probably ran off everything else. If I had built this engine and AL fired this thing up without priming the pump (engine has been drained of fluids, so pump has lost prime as well), all support and warranties would be null and void...and I would probably pass on any gasket/seal warranty after this point any way.

Bottom line is, the pump needs to be primed after filling and the entire engine needs to be as lubed as it can get, BEFORE firing.

I would also have to disagree with your WD statements. As mentioned above, I would bet on not having a lick of any lubricant on the cylinders, and it will need WD, motor oil, ATF, etc., in the cylinders before he turns it over. I know some engine builders who only use a light spray of WD on the cylinders while assembling. It flashes off and the oil splash replaces it.

As for pulling the dist to prime the pump, if he's not familiar with how to get the dist back in and timed so the engine will fire, I can explain it to him in several sentences, and if he follows my instructions, I guarantee it to light off within a few seconds with no drama.

With as much money as he has in this engine, I would be treating it with kid gloves at this point.

[AL427SBF]

Ok, I'm good with what's been shared here and will proceed accordingly. I appreciate all the input, now time to conquer other challenges to get the motor ready. There is one hanging chad left though - spring hysteresis. Years in the aerospace biz says I can't let this one go (yet). I think what has been eluded to here (without actually saying it), is that valve springs are made with enough margin in spring travel to handle the valve cycle - even after being compressed in a static state for a long period of time. The spring does not need to return to it's original uncompressed length, nor will it. Valve train design provides for a state of spring compression even when a valve is fully closed.

If that isn't the case (no compression margin in the spring), then my logic tells me a spring compressed for a long period of time will lose some of its' travel and that may result in a valve not fully closing.
.

[blykins]

I don't think you have much to worry about, but if you're concerned, pull a couple springs and have them checked. Worst case you're out $150 for springs.

[Jac Mac]

You have not mentioned type of cam fitted to your motor, if its hydraulic the lifters will have bled down during the time in storage which takes a bit of pain off the valve springs..eg ~0.060" lifter collapse distance with a 1.6/1 rocker ratio = 0.095" less spring compression on any valves that were open during that period..

[AL427SBF]

COMP Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Roller Lifters 8931-16, thanks for that info.
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[RACERAL]

Did you ever fire this muther up...
I'm in the same situation... only 6 years sitting.