Club Cobra GasN Exhaust  

Go Back   Club Cobra > Engine Building, Tuning, and Induction > Small Block Talk

Welcome to Club Cobra!  The World's largest non biased Shelby Cobra related site!

  •  » Representation from nearly all Cobra/Daytona/GT40 manufacturers
  •  » Help from all over the world for your questions
  •  » Build logs for you and all members
  •  » Blogs
  •  » Image Gallery
  •  » Many thousands of members and nearly 1 million posts! 

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

Keith Craft Racing
Nevada Classics
Keith Craft Racing
Main Menu
Module Jump:
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
Keith Craft Racing
Keith Craft Racing
Keith Craft Racing
Keith Craft Racing
December 2019
S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31        

Kirkham Motorsports

Like Tree19Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2019, 05:01 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Cobra Make, Engine: LSC427
Posts: 4
Not Ranked     
Default Oil cooler install

Im new to this forum and cobras, bought an LSC 427 last year and I have been working the kinks out of it. Its a 351W stroker 393 with Edelbrock fuel injection but doesnt have an oil cooler which I feel it needs. Any suggestions as Im sure lots of folks have been through the same issue?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2019, 08:19 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft, supercharged Coyote
Posts: 2,100
Not Ranked     
Default

Why do you feel it needs this? Oil is heated by RPM's, mostly. Unless you're pounding it lap after lap on the road course, the oil doesn't heat up enough to worry about. On the street, a cooler tends to keep the oil too cold. It never heats up enough to do it's job properly.
Dwight, Gaz64 and Texasdoc like this.
__________________
.boB "Iron Man"
NASA Rocky Mountain TTU #42
www.RacingtheExocet.com
BDR #1642 - Supercharged Coyote, 6 speed Auto
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2019, 01:21 AM
Gaz64's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,314
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcowan View Post
Why do you feel it needs this? Oil is heated by RPM's, mostly. Unless you're pounding it lap after lap on the road course, the oil doesn't heat up enough to worry about. On the street, a cooler tends to keep the oil too cold. It never heats up enough to do it's job properly.
Adding a cooler without adding a bypass thermostat will make the oil take longer to warm up. Each cycle of not reaching minimum oil temp allows more acids to top up and dilute the oil.

First thing to do is add an oil temp gauge, and then determine if you warrant an oil cooler.

Gary
1795 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:14 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Cobra Make, Engine: LSC427
Posts: 4
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcowan View Post
Why do you feel it needs this? Oil is heated by RPM's, mostly. Unless you're pounding it lap after lap on the road course, the oil doesn't heat up enough to worry about. On the street, a cooler tends to keep the oil too cold. It never heats up enough to do it's job properly.
Honestly, just about every ride I've seen has a cooler so I thought that was something they left off and I needed. I don't run the car on a track just street use so maybe I don't need a cooler. WOOHOO!! I will add an oil temp though as recommended by Gaz64. I'm also running Mobil 1 synthetic, for whatever that's worth. Thanks for the info fellas!
1795 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:20 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 64
Not Ranked     
Default

As previously stated, unless you are at the
track it's not needed. Canton Racing #22-480
is a oil cooler thermostat. When oil hits 215
degrees it opens up to use the extra capacity
in the cooler. Under 215 degrees it stays in
bypass. If an oil cooler is installed, this will
help maintain proper oil temperature during
street cruising and when it's hammer time.
Gaz64 likes this.

Last edited by Unique427; 06-25-2019 at 05:30 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2019, 05:54 AM
xb-60's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Adelaide, SA
Cobra Make, Engine: AP 289FIA, 'street build'
Posts: 5,778
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarrettz88 View Post
Honestly, just about every ride I've seen has a cooler so I thought that was something they left off and I needed. I don't run the car on a track just street use so maybe I don't need a cooler. WOOHOO!! I will add an oil temp though as recommended by Gaz64. I'm also running Mobil 1 synthetic, for whatever that's worth. Thanks for the info fellas!
I agree with Gary with regards to the time taken to warm the oil; certainly has a detrimental effect on engine life.

However....if you want the oil cooler look (only), I know that some Cobras have oil coolers fitted for looks, including dummy hoses that disapper "somewhere', but are not actually connected.

I also recall seeing somewhere a remote oil filter mount that was integral with an manually adjustable bypass to the oil cooler. If I can find the details, I'll post them.


Cheers,
Glen
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2019, 11:03 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Cobra Make, Engine: LSC427
Posts: 4
Not Ranked     
Default

Thanks for the info, been much help.
I'm gonna install a oil temp gauge and see where I'm at. Go from there. Definitely not wanting one for looks.
Gaz64 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2019, 06:27 PM
snapier's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Moravia, NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance ford v8
Posts: 79
Not Ranked     
Default

I have a Superformance that has an oil cooler and a 392 Windsor and the oil temp. is very close to the antifreeze temp.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2019, 08:59 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft, supercharged Coyote
Posts: 2,100
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xb-60 View Post
I
However....if you want the oil cooler look (only), I know that some Cobras have oil coolers fitted for looks, including dummy hoses that disapper "somewhere', but are not actually connected.

Glen
Mine is like that. I like the look of the cooler. But I certainly don't need one.

A thermostat will often not allow the oil to warm up properly. When closed, it allows about 10% of the oil to circulate through the cooler. As the oil warms up and the thermostat is open, it allows about 10% of the oil to bypass the cooler and go back to the engine. This allows all of the oil to warm up together. Otherwise, the thermostat would open and you'de get a big slug of cold oil into a hot engine. And that's a bad thing.

The down side of that is that if you're cruising down the highway on a cold morning, the oil will never warm up. That is also a bad thing.
RET_COP likes this.
__________________
.boB "Iron Man"
NASA Rocky Mountain TTU #42
www.RacingtheExocet.com
BDR #1642 - Supercharged Coyote, 6 speed Auto
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:25 PM
Gaz64's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,314
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcowan View Post
Mine is like that. I like the look of the cooler. But I certainly don't need one.

A thermostat will often not allow the oil to warm up properly. When closed, it allows about 10% of the oil to circulate through the cooler. As the oil warms up and the thermostat is open, it allows about 10% of the oil to bypass the cooler and go back to the engine. This allows all of the oil to warm up together. Otherwise, the thermostat would open and you'de get a big slug of cold oil into a hot engine. And that's a bad thing.

The down side of that is that if you're cruising down the highway on a cold morning, the oil will never warm up. That is also a bad thing.
That's why the bypass when cold is only a small amount to allow it warm up.

An oil cooler without a thermostat will take a long time to warm up.

An oil cooler with a bypass thermostat will warm up the oil almost as quickly as without a cooler.

Any factory installation has a bypass, and so you should when adding aftermarket parts.

Gary

Last edited by Gaz64; 06-27-2019 at 05:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:33 PM
cycleguy55's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: White City, SK
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast, 460 CID
Posts: 2,162
Not Ranked     
Default

I don't have an oil cooler and my oil temperature rarely gets to 240F - usually it peaks around 220F to 230F, depending upon ambient temperature. That's hot enough to drive off moisture, but nowhere near the maximum temperature for dino oil, much less synthetic.
__________________
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2019, 06:02 PM
Gaz64's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,314
Not Ranked     
Default

Unlike a lot of guys who run large oil pans and no cooler, I run a small modified pan, and a large cooler with an inline bypass thermostat.

Oil warms quickly, around the street about 220, and never gets over 240.

Gary
cycleguy55 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 08:04 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft, supercharged Coyote
Posts: 2,100
Not Ranked     
Default

That didn't work here in Colorado. It was not uncommon to leave the house when the temps were in mid 30's F (1-2* C). Cruising down the highway at 75mph, the oil temp struggled to get above 120* F (49* C) or so in the pan. Even if I covered the cooler with duct tape or cardboard, it still struggled.
__________________
.boB "Iron Man"
NASA Rocky Mountain TTU #42
www.RacingtheExocet.com
BDR #1642 - Supercharged Coyote, 6 speed Auto
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 03:32 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Hardwick, vt
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Slabside BRG 289
Posts: 154
Not Ranked     
Default

The same is true here in Vermont. Very rare to see the oil temp over 210 in my 289 SB even on a hot (80) day in slow traffic.





John

ERA #3010 289 Slabside BRG
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 05:22 PM
Gaz64's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,314
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcowan View Post
That didn't work here in Colorado. It was not uncommon to leave the house when the temps were in mid 30's F (1-2* C). Cruising down the highway at 75mph, the oil temp struggled to get above 120* F (49* C) or so in the pan. Even if I covered the cooler with duct tape or cardboard, it still struggled.
Depends on where you measure the oil temp.

Just like a coolant temp sensor, the oil temp sensor should be mounted after the oil pump somewhere within the oil circuit, where a higher temp closer to peaks will be measured. Pan temperatures can be deceiving.

Just like a cooling system, the temp should be able to warm up regardless.

Gary
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-01-2019, 07:53 PM
w-lewis's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Savannah, ga
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique, 351W
Posts: 209
Not Ranked     
Default

I have a 351W with a 9qt oil pan and an oil cooler. Oil temp gauge needle rises to just slightly below the 140 mark, never exceeding that, causing me to question whether the gauge works properly. I've tried taping up the cooler opening and the temp rises to slightly above the 140 mark, but no more. Not sure where my temp sensor is located, but will check. Is my gauge wrong or is my oil temp unusually cool?
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2019, 06:36 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft, supercharged Coyote
Posts: 2,100
Not Ranked     
Default

Unless you're racing it, the gauge is most likely pretty accurate, and your oil temps are too low. After driving it, hit the pan with an infrared thermometer. Although not spot on, with will give you a pretty good idea of what your temps are.
Dwight and Gaz64 like this.
__________________
.boB "Iron Man"
NASA Rocky Mountain TTU #42
www.RacingtheExocet.com
BDR #1642 - Supercharged Coyote, 6 speed Auto
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2019, 07:47 AM
w-lewis's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Savannah, ga
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique, 351W
Posts: 209
Not Ranked     
Default

Good idea. Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2019, 05:28 PM
Gaz64's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 2,314
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by w-lewis View Post
I have a 351W with a 9qt oil pan and an oil cooler. Oil temp gauge needle rises to just slightly below the 140 mark, never exceeding that, causing me to question whether the gauge works properly. I've tried taping up the cooler opening and the temp rises to slightly above the 140 mark, but no more. Not sure where my temp sensor is located, but will check. Is my gauge wrong or is my oil temp unusually cool?
If that is the true oil temp, and never exceeds that, you need to do something about that, or start changing your oil more frequently.

The combustion byproduct acids don't start to boil out until 180.

Acid build-up in engine oil eventually destroys bearing metal in rarely driven cars.

Gary
Dwight likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-02-2019, 05:41 PM
cycleguy55's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: White City, SK
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast, 460 CID
Posts: 2,162
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by w-lewis View Post
I have a 351W with a 9qt oil pan and an oil cooler. Oil temp gauge needle rises to just slightly below the 140 mark, never exceeding that, causing me to question whether the gauge works properly. I've tried taping up the cooler opening and the temp rises to slightly above the 140 mark, but no more. Not sure where my temp sensor is located, but will check. Is my gauge wrong or is my oil temp unusually cool?
Not having an oil thermostat is one possible cause of that.
Gaz64 likes this.
__________________
Brian
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy
Links monetized by VigLink