351c heads on 351w now headers are not rite

Rick Carnahan · #1 (**permalink**) 04-21-2003, 07:02 PM

Was told that the cleavland headers would work on my new motor but went to test fit it tonight and they are way off. I have a shell valley, and a very trick 351w with 351c heads. any one out there runing this combo in a cobra and if so whats the deal?
the angle of the heads seems to be way off. the headers are hitting the frame and still a long way from matching the heads.
thought we had thought this all out but now I am confused.

Kevin · #2 (**permalink**) 04-21-2003, 10:50 PM

Rick,
The Cleveland heads are a lot different than the windsor type when it comes to header flanges. I do not think you can do anything about it but change the headers. Kevin

www.anthemmotors.com

jmarsey · #3 (**permalink**) 04-21-2003, 11:53 PM

The only thing similar between the 351w and 351c head is that the head bolt holes line up with the block. Buy some cleveland header flanges and make your own or adapt the headers you have to the cleveland flanges. Shouldn't be too hard. You can buy the flanges off the shelf.

John

Jack Zupan · #4 (**permalink**) 04-22-2003, 03:22 AM

Rick,

I think the problem is that the Windsor and the Cleveland have different deck heights. If I remember correctly the Windsor is taller by about 0.3 inches. This will throw your header geometry way off by the time you get to the chassis frame. I had a Cobra like this until last year and the headers were custom made. You may have to do that also. If I can dig out any help from my old notes, I will let you know.

Jack Z.

jmarsey · #5 (**permalink**) 04-22-2003, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack Zupan

Rick,

I think the problem is that the Windsor and the Cleveland have different deck heights. If I remember correctly the Windsor is taller by about 0.3 inches. This will throw your header geometry way off by the time you get to the chassis frame. I had a Cobra like this until last year and the headers were custom made. You may have to do that also. If I can dig out any help from my old notes, I will let you know.

Jack Z.

Jack,

The deck height has nothing to do with it. The heads are completely different, especially the exhaut ports which are almost 1" longer and angle much further down than a windsor. If you are curious, look at the difference side by side sometime. The differences are very obvious. The header bolts aren't even in the same configuration. I learned a lot about the cleveland style head when I first moched up my motor in my car and the heads banged against the upper frame rail. They are huge compared to the in-line valve windsor head.

Most small block folks stay clear of the canted-valve stuff ie, cleveland, boss, c-3 and yates.

John Marsey

rdorman · #6 (**permalink**) 04-22-2003, 07:35 AM

He HAS cleveland heads and cleveland headers. However, I don't get the "...the headers are ... still a long way from matching the heads." Do you mean that you can not get them to bolt up to the head but because of packaging (frame etc), or the port and bolt layout is different?

Custom made is the way to go. What you have may be able to be modified to work. The deck height on the windsor is different. Does anyone now if the cylinder angle is different (the "V" degrees)? This would tilt the header up or down. Of course if the heads have been angle milled, this will add to the problems.

Rick

jmarsey · #7 (**permalink**) 04-22-2003, 07:48 AM

Rick, it would be good if you could post a picture of the condition. Have these pipes ever been in your car before? If not, they simply need to be altered. John

Rick Carnahan · #8 (**permalink**) 04-22-2003, 08:34 AM

Thanks for all the replys. I am going to just custom build a set on the car that seems to be the best way to solve the problem.