5.0 vs 4.6

MDP727 · #1 (**permalink**) 11-25-2003, 10:22 PM

Which engine for aftermarket performance and still being smog legal offers the most: performance, cost advantage, and parts availibility?

Excaliber · #2 (**permalink**) 11-25-2003, 11:26 PM

,,,and one more thing:

Which one will actually FIT in the vehicle!

Cost, parts available, easy to work on, smog legal (and will fit):
5.0

Ernie

Curt C. · #3 (**permalink**) 11-30-2003, 09:22 AM

5.0 litre hands down. The 4.6 is proving to be a very efficient motor and makes great power. However, the aftermarket is still pretty slim. There are no head offerings yet and the stuff that is available is quite a bit more expensive than pushrod stuff.

Edbo · #4 (**permalink**) 11-30-2003, 09:57 AM

Curt, the FRPP '04 catalog has five pages of performance parts for the 4.6, including heads for the SOHC and DOHC.

How about a complete, brand new, drop-in, 315HP 4.6 DOHC with clutch, transmission, computer, exhaust system, all plumbing and wiring harness for $5,995? P/N M-6001-C460

Smog legal anywhere in the world and Factory Five is rolling out a kit for it in the next few weeks!

Ed

Bill Wells · #5 (**permalink**) 11-30-2003, 11:04 AM

if one is considering fitting a 4.6L in a cobra, ya better get some excellent engine bay measurements to ensure it will fit, as in some cars, including a SPF in stock format, the 4.6L will NOT FIT> the 4.6L is much wider than the 5.0 and interferes with the steering , and perhaps other interferences too . So , something else to consider. I have seen the 4.6L in some cobras, but can't recall what brand and dont know if they had to do any modifications or not to stuff it in.

re aftermarket stuffo for the 4.6L, LOTS are availalbe thru Ford, Ford Racing/SVT/SVO ...AND...other aftermarket suppliers. The wild stuff you see on 4.6L mustang engines boggles the mind, kinda like looking at engine bays of 300 hoods up Cobras at DVSF...more hop up stuff and add on trinkets than one might think exists. Bill.

Curt C. · #6 (**permalink**) 12-04-2003, 03:45 PM

Those heads SOHC (PI) are the same ones that come on the newer motors - 99 up. They made these available because the 96-98 heads were such dogs. The 4 valve heads are the same as what comes on the Cobra. No real aftermarket heads are on the market. That is a good price for the 4 valve motor and tranny - $6K? Is that for real?

"Which engine for aftermarket performance and still being smog legal offers the most: performance, cost advantage, and parts availibility?"

With respect to cost advantage and part availability, 5.0 litre hands down. Dont get me wrong, I love the new modular designs. They make good power and are the future. Aftermarket is slow to come with new bolt one parts though. Look at all the head and intake offerings for Windsors. Not one head for 4.6 versus 20+ for Windsor. Reichard now makes a fabricated intake for the modular, but it is insanely expensive.

JCLW · #7 (**permalink**) 12-15-2003, 07:27 PM

Hi all, first post here.

Sean Hyland Motorsports does a lot of work with the Ford modular engines (4.6, 5.4, and the V10). They bore the 4.6s up to 5.2 and the 5.4s up to 6.0.

My Crown Vic has a 4.6 and as I've always understood it the PI (performance enhanced) heads are still a bit better then even the newer 4.6 heads.

I dont' know why there are so few 4.6 "capable" cobras around. A stock 4.6 makes more power, burns less fuel, and is cleaner burning then a stock 5.0/302. And the 4.6s have been around for over 10 years now. A little more $$$, but worth it IMHO.

Some nice GT heads
Some nicer Cobra heads

I wonder if a 5.4 will fit in the MKIIIs

- JW

Excaliber · #8 (**permalink**) 12-15-2003, 11:07 PM

I prefer the lower rpm torque of the 5.0 vs the 4.6 myself.

Ernie

xlr8or · #9 (**permalink**) 12-16-2003, 12:09 AM

I believe the biggest challenge will be fitting the 4.6 in the Cobra chassis. If memory serves correct it is a little taller and wider than a 460 block. I saw one on a pallet last week and it's big sucker for only 4.6 liters.

JCLW · #10 (**permalink**) 12-17-2003, 08:07 AM

It's the overhead cams and associated gear that makes them taller & wider.

- JW

strictlypersonl · #11 (**permalink**) 12-17-2003, 08:42 AM

The 351 is shown with a shallow (GT40) pan and short water pump.

Chaplin · #12 (**permalink**) 12-17-2003, 10:19 AM

Nice illustration Bob.
There was a guy who installed a 4.6 in an ERA 289. The car was written up in Mustangs & Fords (I think) last summer. Very nice car, but if I remember correctly, he said that the car required "substantial" modifications before the motor would fit. If you do a search on this site, the guy that owned the car posted a thread inquiring as to the value of the car. Don't know if he ever sold it.

cobracrazy · #13 (**permalink**) 12-27-2003, 06:09 PM

No I didn't ever sell project cobratech! (4.6L DOHC 289 FIA replica project)

I sold my mustang instead. The modifications were considerable and expensive to get the 4.6L DOHC into my 289 FIA. In fact, ERA will not do another one. Many little things come up that are unexpected. This is basically a transplant project and transplants are often much more complicated than anyone anticipates. I did get a fantastic performer with great reliability. A few pictures are at www.bloodenterprises.com/cobra and I will glady discuss this at length with anyone interested in such a project. There is a link to me on the web page. The big problem with transplants is that the better they are the more easy they look. But this is an expensive illusion.

In the end, I think a very expensive 302 would have been a better choice financially. But I have learned a lot and met some very good people building project Cobratech for sure so I cannot complain.

Adam Crabtree

decooney · #14 (**permalink**) 12-27-2003, 10:44 PM

Adam / cobracrazy,
...But it looks soooo nice and clean in there. I've often thought this would be a very cool project to do with an ERA. Thanks for sharing your website and pictures...

There was a guy at the Monterey Historics / Concorso this year with a black 1972 Pantera that had a highly tweeked 4.6 DOHC motor in it. 8,500 rpm, 11.5:1, Fuel Injection, with some computer mods. Man it just looked so clean and perfect in the Pantera. He said it had around 500HP, could run in 100 degree heat all day long with the AC on, running on PUMP gas.
You and the folks at ERA Replicas are pioneers for actually doing this againsts the grain so to speak, in an ERA. Nice job.

ohekk · #15 (**permalink**) 12-28-2003, 05:10 AM

Excalibur's "R&D" car was built with a 4.6 Cobra engine.

It was several years in the making and reportedly had over $190K invested. I know the guy that was doing the final engineering and assembly and was able to observe the project up close. The engine was indeed a tight squeeze and required a modified hood.

It's black with tan interior and titled as a 2001.

It was purchased by a gentleman in Milwaukee.

mattr762 · #16 (**permalink**) 01-05-2004, 11:39 PM

The 4.6 will fit in a 289 hybrid Kirkham, shelby, Premier Cobra:

It is a very very tight fit though. And there is even room for the supercharger!

Cobra4Me · #17 (**permalink**) 02-28-2004, 10:28 PM

CobraCrazy,

Nice Car! I wish I had that kind of money to buy an ERA and then install a 4.6 DOHC !
I do however intent on building a second Cobra with a 2003 Cobra engine, I already have the engine, tranny (T56) (what did you use?) and all the necessary stuff to put together a FFR MKIII (suposedly it'll take many parts from the newer Mustangs) in my garage. ( Pictures and details in my website, but I dunno if it is legal to post links to another forum like in other websites ).

(mods?)
A good friend here in San Diego has a Cobra building business and said also that Backdraft Racing has installed several DOHC motors in their cars, he has offered his help in installing it into a Backdraft (of course I have to buy the car).
I also have a 2003 SOHC drivetrain from a GT and also intent on building another Kit Car someday.

Vikingnene · #18 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 10:18 AM

I guess I'm the bastard child here not having a Cobra, but this topic has info. that could greatly help me with a project I'm doing right now. I'm trying to find the dimensions for the 32V Ford Cobra motor, especially the width from valve cover to valve cover. If anyone would be kind enough to share this with me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you,
Vikingnene

Dennis Kelley · #19 (**permalink**) 11-16-2004, 02:32 PM

Just my opinion but I think the 302 is the best motor for parts, power output, weight and overall bang for buck. I feel that the 4.6 is a good motor but its just to big and heavy for what you get. There is a reason why new mustangs weight is over 3400 lbs. Remember weight is the enemy. I've never worked on a 4.6 but the wiring is enough to drive me away. I don't think 4.6 looks right in a Cobra engine bay. A small block windsor with aluminum heads is a thing of art in a cobra engine bay. Just my opinion.