351w vs 351c

[767Jockey]

All things being equal, a Cleveland will outperform a Windsor. Now, before all you W owners get your panties in a wad, the W is a fine engine. The problem with the Cleveland here is that it was only available for a few years. Ford made a decision, driven only by economics, that there was no need for two different small blocks, and for a number of reasons, and performance was definitely NOT one of them, went with the W. Now, there are definitely some great performance parts for the W out there, and you can make one hell of a fine W with enough $, just like almost every other engine. That being said, there’s just no substitute to great cylinder heads, and the C heads are head and shoulders above the W heads.

When Ford pulled the C motors from America, they kept on using them in Australia. The Aussies are some pretty sharp guys, and they have done an awesome job in developing the engines. Being down under and so far away from us, we had little knowledge of what they were doing with the engine until recently. However, what they’ve done with it is now more and more commonly known, and what they’ve done is nothing short of amazing. For about 10K you can build a 408” stroked C that will put out well north of 575 HP. They have developed some incredible aluminum heads for the engine, that not only move even MORE air than the infamous 4V Cleveland heads, but also keep up the air flow VELOCITY, which solves the Achilles heal of the C, which is low end HP and Torque. The exhaust ports on the Cleveland were poor also, the Aussies have fixed that as well. Look on the websites for CHI and AFD heads to see what I’m talking about.

Also, there’s a guy here in America who’s casting thick walled C blocks that will allow 460” Cleveland’s, and should allow pump gas streetable engines of over 800 HP. The heads on the C are essentially slightly smaller versions of the 460 big block head. Canted valve heads, which the C and the 460 have are always preferable to straight valve. Just as dollar for dollar you’ll always get more HP from a 460 than a FE (even though we all love the FE for it’s pedigree and correctness), you’ll likewise (dollar for dollar) get more HP from a C than a W.

With the new blocks coming out, or even with a Dart based Clevor, which is W block with C heads (like a Boss 302 on steroids), you can have a 460” small block with ungodly power, at hundreds of pounds less than the 460 big block. You just can’t make that kind of power with the W heads. Look on the MME Racing site ( MMERacing.com ) and look at the power and price of his Clevor packages. It’s just stunning the power they make, and compared to engine builders like Roush, they’re less money, and make FAR more power. How about a 427" engine making 675 HP for 14K? Not enough? How about 460" with 725 HP?

The Windsor is a fine engine, it’s just limited by the straight valve heads and can’t make the upper levels of power that a Cleveland can. Not a knock on the engines or a slam at anyone who owns one, it’s just the way it is. Hat’s off to the Aussies – they’ve done an AWESOME job of developing this engine.

As far as parts, everything is available. Just go on Summit or Jegs, and whatever you need is there. It’s not until you get to exotic stuff like Webers and Fuel injection that it becomes a bit more difficult. Even that stuff is out there, you just have to look a bit harder.

Cleveland or Windsor, either way you really can’t go wrong. I just wanted to let you guys know the Cleveland isn’t the dinosaur it’s made out to be. It’s probably the most technologically advanced of the four most commonly used Cobra engines right now. It looks great, sounds great, makes HUGE power economically, and weighs about the same as the W. What’s not to love?