Help?????????????????

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Started puttong my engine together today and ran into 3 problems;

1. Put the girdle and oil pump on and now my oil pan will not fit on the engine. I went to a standard, single hump oil pan and the standard 302 oil pick up, not the long one....where did I go wrong???????????????

2. I put the camshaft in and it slides back and forth about 1/4 of an inch after I put the thrust plate on. Probably not a problem because the timing gear bolt will hold it from going back and forth, right?????

3. After I put the cam shaft bolt in the timing gear end the back of the timing gear hits on the bolt and prevents the engine from turning????????????


HELP??????????????????????????????????? Please....

[blykins]

1. You will need to modify your oil pan to fit the main cap girdle. I had a Canton road race pan and had to beat it out a little to make it fit. I also had to remove the built in windage tray.

2. If there's nothing holding the cam in place (like a timing gear and cam plate) then it will move.

3. I'm not for sure if I know what you're talking about here. You sure you don't have the timing gear on backwards? Where exactly is it hitting?

[csx700?]

the camshaft thrust plate bolts are a special shallow head design......so that they will not hit the camshaft gear.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Okay, thanks for the answers so far, anyone else?????

I kind of figured the thrust plate bolts were special low profile but I've been through the disassembly box 3 times and tried the only 2 sets of 2 I could find and both had the problem. (No one in town has the replacements in ARP, order only) No, unfortunately I did not put the gears on backwards, only one way to go as far as I can tell. Also, is there or is there not a Gasket between the thrust plate and the block?? Is this a non gasket area since it is entirely sumerged in oil inside the timing cover??

Also, the oil pan looks closer to fitting with the hump toward the front of the engine, not the rear where it belongs??

And the #4 problem I forget to mention, I cannot get the windage tray to fit with the girdle?? Is it one or the other or are you supposed to be able to use both at the same time??

Come on you "Engine Experts" out there, Please Help???????????

PLEASE???????????????

[Turk]

Earl,
Photos may help get answers fasters. Do you have access to a digital camera?

TURK

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Yes, however I can never figure how to get them on to the web site...Thanks for the suggestion.

[Mike Simard]

The 2 bolts that hold the thrust plate must not have a washer or thick head or they'll hit the timing gear when it goes on.
Speaking of the timing gear, it's the other side of the thrust bearing, you wouldn't be able to measure thrust until the gear is installed.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Sorry, Mike, I did not understand your second statement, could you possibly clarify it??

[trularin]

Pictures would be nice, but let's look at a few things.

1. The cam sits between a press in plug at the rear of the engine and the thrust plate at the front. If you R&Red the rear plug, it needs to be seated back where it was. If not, there may be problems.
2. The bolts that secure the gear to the cam are special. But, you can make your own if you have a lathe. Grade 8 ( a little added strength ) bolts and turn them to the right length and height. The thrust plate will have either one or two oil galleys. To make this simple, there has to be a galley between the orfice offset from the cam hole that supplies oil and the cam face.
3. Bolt the thrust plate with the galley towards the block and in the correct orientation. Use the thin head bolts. Then place a bolt in one of the cam holes and do a little end play check. Should move about 1/8 to 3/16". Now place the cam gear on the cam. If you are NOT going to use a mechanical pump, you can leave the excentric off. Run your bolt is and tighten. End play may be a little as .010 ( that's what it was on my last engine ).
4. Spin the cam a little. If it turns, but is hard, that may be from the "red snots" ( cam lube ).

You do not say what kind of pan you are using, but if blykins is right, I had to "dimple" my pan as well. Personally I do not know why you are installing a girdle, unless you are doing serious Rs. The 302/351 has good oiling and will rev to 8 to 10K with a high volume/high pressure pump and good blue printing. ( i've done it ) But if you are set on the girdle:
1. Install studs all around the engine base for the pan.
2. lower the pan on for a trial run. Note where is seems to hang-up. ( note; if you are using the Canton pickup, it may feel like it is hung up when in fact you had not cleared the edge of the screen )
3. Pull the pan back and see if you can see anything in the way.
4. If it is a stud, you can grind or cut to the top of the nut, but no further.
5. if it is the girdle, you need to make a call. ( personally; don't grind on the girdle )
6. if it is engine, mild heat and a ball peen hammer will allow you to dimple the pan.
7. Once you have the pan in a condition to go on, you need to test. Rotate the engine mass with two nuts holding the pan on. if it hits, more dimpling.
8. once you can rotate the mass and the pan appears to fit, remove the pan and place a small piece of clay or playDO ont he high spots. If you are too close, the pan will wear through and make a rather nasty hole.
9. .100" is as close as you want to be.
10. Play the pan gasket in place over the studs and secure with RTV ( smear with finger, NO globs ) and allow to dry. Do the saem with the end seals.
11. After the gasket in glued down, take a small amount of grease and cover the entire gasket. place the pan and secure all of the nuts.

I ask Canton about the windage tray. It was hard to understand the person, but he indicated I should use their tray. Anyway, I had to use grade 8 jam nuts with cut down studs to get everything to fit. You will want to safety wire the nuts to the studs after they are torqued. Here again, do the putty thing to find out what you have for clearance. Oh and one more thing, I had to dimple the windagfe tray as well to get the crank with the piston rods attached to turn.

The hump goes where the pickup is.

Gee, Earl. I hope this helps you out. I have done a lot of engines in my life and no two are ever the same. Let us know what you end up with.

[Mike Simard]

About the gear being part of the thrust bearing, the thrust plate handles thrust both in and out. The face of the cam and the thrust plate handle movement forward. The inside of the gear makes contact with the thrust plate to handle movement towards the rear. Notice that there is a step on the back of your gear slightly deeper than the thickness of the thrust plate, that step determines end play.

[EarlsflyinCobra]

Okay, figured out the problem with the thrust plate.....DUHHH....had 4 bolts the same, so I thought, but upon closer inspection 2 had lock washers, 2 did not....how could I miss that....tired I guess....however now I have created another problem....I dropped the thrust plate and broke an ear off..anybody got an extra thrust plate for a 1989 5.0/302 engine..if so how much and how soon can you send it to me?? Please???????????? Also, I need a timing gear cover for the same engine, mine seems to have grown legs and walked off...for a serpentine belt set up?? How much, anyone??
I also figured out the oil pan problem, the dip stick holder that goes thru the side of the pan is hitting, keeping pan from seating. It clearly says on the girdle paperwork if this happens to "get a new" oilpan..................Always something!!!!!!!!!
And the #4 problem I forget to mention, I cannot get the windage tray to fit with the girdle?? Is it one or the other or are you supposed to be able to use both at the same time??


And the #4 problem I forget to mention, I cannot get the windage tray to fit with the girdle?? Is it one or the other or are you supposed to be able to use both at the same time??

[blykins]

Earl, you will need a special windage tray for use with a girdle....usually the girdles that have provisions for them have longer studs that it can mount to.

As for the cam thrust plate....I have one....I can probably mail it to you. I bought a brand spankin new one from Ford, and it was close to $50.....so how about $5 plus postage? That sound ok? If so, you can Paypal me.....and I'll send it Monday.

It's for a 351W, but should work. Just to make sure we're on the same page....it's the little sorta round thing with an ear on it that bolts to the front of the block in front of the cam with two bolts.....right?