standard or HV oil pump?

[hi-tech cobra]

I sure hope the stock roller block holds together, I'm shooting for 450hp at the flywheel.

Does anyone know if the oil valley girdle works?

What about the oil pump, I read somewhere a HV oil pump puts lots of strain on the distributor gear. Would a standard one work better?

[jwd]

Originally Posted by hi-tech cobra

What about the oil pump, I read somewhere a HV oil pump puts lots of strain on the distributor gear. Would a standard one work better?

If you are building a full race motor with extra large clearances on the crank, go with a high volume pump to make up for the extra clearance. If not, a stock volume pump is more than adequate.

[hi-tech cobra]

It's a 347, all forged internals, AFR 185 heads. Mostly street use, occasional road racing. So the standard pump will be best?

[GTA]

I've used Hv pumps in all my SB motors . I have never had a problem with them. I always use a HP distributor drive rod.All of my motors were Built for hi perforance use and still be driven on the street.Just my 2 cents worth.Roger

[LMH]

Stock pump.
Will help keep the distributor gear pin from shearing off.
Larry

[Rick Parker]

What are the bearing clearances? This is information that will dictate whether a HV pump will be necessary or advantageous.

[vettestr]

First off A stock pump will work but without the buffer of a HV pump. If you add remote filters and coolers the HV will surely not hurt you. If this shears the distrib drive pin get a new and better one.
I think too heavy weight oil and oil not allowed to run at proper temp is by far a more common issue. Use the HV pump as a buffer for remote filters and coolers not used on STOCK pump designs and applications.
There will be some who say stock is better and some HV is better but an inexpensive upgrade with minimal possible downside. It is your Toy so do what seems right for you.

[Wayne Maybury]

Here is an interesting side point. My friend, who is an engine builder, always uses torque plates when boring and honing 302 blocks for 347 strokers. By the way, he prefers to use good quality standard oil pumps in street/strip engines.

Wayne

[jwd]

Originally Posted by Wayne Maybury

Here is an interesting side point. My friend, who is an engine builder, always uses torque plates when boring and honing 302 blocks for 347 strokers. By the way, he prefers to use good quality standard oil pumps in street/strip engines.

Wayne

I agree with your engine builder. You'd be hard pressed to find a reputible engine builder that would recommend a HV pump for a street/strip car. It's just asking for trouble with ZERO benefits.

[Dwight]

I have a 89 5.0 in my Cobra with a HV Melling oil pump. 65 psi cold and 50 hot. Water temp 195 and oil temp is 160 ( 7 qt oil pan ) 180 when I am a quart low. I orginal installed a HP / HV oil pump, pressure was 95 cold and 80 - 85 hot, 105 at 5700 rpm. I blew the remote oil filter o ring. Two and half quarts of oil up my windshield and thru my hair. I changed the oil pump! I have 17,000 miles on the motor / HV oil pump and no problems.


Dwight

[Scufty]

Does anyone else have problems with dist gears ..I go through them like their oil
Ive heard all the "normal" solutions just curious as to others ..its a MSD distributor

[jwd]

Originally Posted by Dwight

I have a 89 5.0 in my Cobra with a HV Melling oil pump. 65 psi cold and 50 hot. Water temp 195 and oil temp is 160 ( 7 qt oil pan ) 180 when I am a quart low. I orginal installed a HP / HV oil pump, pressure was 95 cold and 80 - 85 hot, 105 at 5700 rpm. I blew the remote oil filter o ring. Two and half quarts of oil up my windshield and thru my hair. I changed the oil pump! I have 17,000 miles on the motor / HV oil pump and no problems.


Dwight

At what RPM are those pressures? If it's 6000 RPM, you're okay. If it's at idle, that's WAY too much.

[LMH]

The problem tends to be the gear pin when used with a HV pump. There is a fix for it but unless an engine is designed to use a HV pump, it's best to just go with a standard pump. That's especially true when using a stock capicity oil pan.
Larry

[Jim Zagg]

High volume oil pumps create more problems than they prevent. I build a lot of engines for muscle cars and hot rods. A fresh engine with proper clearences DOES NOT need a high volume pump! I have seen cam gears and distributor gears wear out and broken drive shafts! I never use them!

JIM ZAG

[jeffko]

The amount of road racing you will do will lead to all the other decisions. If you road race with any duration and frequency then you must have a thermostatically controlled oil cooler. This leads to a high volume pump which in fact does put more strain on the distributor gear. The distributor gear is driven by the camshaft gear which is considerably harder and notoriously sharp. The bad thing is that, in my case MSD, use cast gears as a standard. You must have a steel gear with most all aftermarket cams. I bought a ford racing steel gear and had a machine shop install it. Some things you can not do yourself without big $$ in machining tools. If you look at the link below I further helped the problem by providing more oil to the cam gear/dist gear contact. The picture is at about 40 psi which is all my drill motor would produce. By the way, my idle psi is about 35-40 and cruising is about 65-70 and cold is about 85. Simply drill a .040 hole in the right bank oil galley plug. I also recommend the oil pump in the second link along with a billet drive shaft. I have 4500 demanding miles on my engine without any problems at all.

There is nothing harder on an engine, car too for that matter, than road racing. Drag racing does not even come close. Almost all street and drag race driven cars do just fine on a standard oil pump.

I may not be an expert, but I did a ton of research before I bought the first part for my engine. It is still just my two cents.


http://www.clubcobra.com/photopost/s...0&ppuser=20014

http://www.precisionoilpumps.com/ima..._Race_Pump.jpg

[Rick Parker]

Take note of the base plate design on this pump, it has been available for a few years now and is worth seeking out. It has the shaft supported by the base plate along with the pump body instead of just the pump body as was the only previous option. This design is also available for 289/302. It is a much better design, made by Melling.

http://www.precisionoilpumps.com/ima..._Race_Pump.jpg

[J Persons]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

Take note of the base plate design on this pump, it has been available for a few years now and is worth seeking out. It has the shaft supported by the base plate along with the pump body instead of just the pump body as was the only previous option. This design is also available for 289/302. It is a much better design, made by Melling.

http://www.precisionoilpumps.com/ima..._Race_Pump.jpg

I use this pump. Preision oil pumps are blueprinted, and are coated internally to reduce friction. They also feature an adjustable bypass spring so you can set your pressure where ever you want it. Well worth the money. John

[1blackbb66]

Dwight and CobraEd have hit the nail on the head. Pressure and volume are two different things. You want more volume but not pressure. It's the pressure that is hard on the gear. I have run HV pumps on everything for years without problems but have always made sure the pressure is about 65 psi max hot. HV pumps keep the pressure up at hot idle which is a good thing. I would like to hear more engine builders thoughts on this subject.

Ray

[jeffko]

What you guys are not considering is friction. The more volume you put through the same passage, hole or hose the more friction you cause...ie pressure.

Most stock pumps run at 40psi and as low as 15psi at idle. The added volume and pressure that comes along with the volume is needed to force the oil into places it does not easily go under the tremendous forces applied to the bearings and machined surfaces in a high torque engine under full load. Anyone that has ever used plastigauge has seen how thin the space for the oil is and that is a static load. .0020-.0025 is not much of a space especially when you consider the piston driving the big end of the rod down against the crank to force it to rotate against the resistance of the rest of the drivetrain, rear wheels and weight of the car.

Nobody thinks twice about spending several hundreds of dollars on performance parts, but the distributor gear is very often overlooked. It's not that a guy won't buy the correct gear, but rather he is unaware of the problem. Last year there were 3 guys that munched distributor gears in our club and one of them twice in less than 500 miles. Murphy's law can apply at anytime, but most engine parts will perform to design when properly oiled. You can not expect a cast gear to survive against a heat treated, hardened steel cam gear. It will eventually fail.

By the way, I have built my engine and several others even though I would not consider myself an engine builder.

[speed220mph]

Ed: Don't use a high-volume pump unless your engine has extremely high oil clearances, as if it were worn out . Remember that an oil pump always moves the same volume regardless of what it bypasses to maintain the oil pressure set by the pressure regulator. So I suggest you don't install a HV pump and not waste the power as was done "in the old days."