Any 351 Cleveland guys out there - need to ID block and heads

[trularin]

IMHO it is not a slug, but then again, that's my opinion.

[767Jockey]

I've gotten some great replies and I'm encouraged that I can get some useful horsepower from this engine without spending a fortune. Thanks, guys.

[55312]

I'm just an impartial observer here but I'm dumbfounded by your skepticism on this engine. The Cleveland has a very storied history and is a GREAT engine design. You can get a ton of horsepower out of this motor and have something fairly unique and very servicable. Look into the "Clevor" conversion with the Australian 2v heads or match a cam and intake to the 4v heads. This motor breaths like a true big block and if I were to build another motor, other than an FE, it would be a Cleveland! All those Panteras weren't slugs!

Tim

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by 55312

I'm just an impartial observer here but I'm dumbfounded by your skepticism on this engine. The Cleveland has a very storied history and is a GREAT engine design. You can get a ton of horsepower out of this motor and have something fairly unique and very servicable. Look into the "Clevor" conversion with the Australian 2v heads or match a cam and intake to the 4v heads. This motor breaths like a true big block and if I were to build another motor, other than an FE, it would be a Cleveland! All those Panteras weren't slugs!

Tim

A Clevor is Cleveland heads on a Windsor block, aka "aftermarket" Boss 302 type motor. IMO, that's the best small block setup, but expensive to build and hard to find intakes anymore.

Doug, don't sweat the 2V heads. You WANT the 2V heads. The 4V heads are too much for a street driven car.

A 351C is basically like a mini-460, with the same canted valve head configuration. They are great motors. The reason they never because as popular as other Ford motors, is because they needed a lot of work to spin them hard, because of their unique main size. That's what made the Boss 302 a killer motor- high winding Windsor short block, with crazy Cleveland heads.

If you want to talk to someone local about Clevelands, talk to Jeff Lawrence (Lawrence Racing Engines). He's a Cleveland nut, and runs low 9s with a Cleveland in a Fox body Mustang in NHRA stock class.

[55312]

Sal - your right. Mea Culpa on the Cleavor. Still a good motor though.

Tim

[767Jockey]

Guys, You're right, without a doubt. I was bummed due to my ignorance of the 2V heads. I thought that meant that the engine was destined to be Dad's station wagon propulsion. I was obviously wrong, thanks to all the great info I got from you guys and so many others. My plans for the Cleveland are fairly short term - one day I still want an FE. Until then, I'll be running the Cleveland. I'm pulling it out later this week in order to prep the engine bay and swap out the automatic for a stick. Mr. Mustang has graciously offered to ID the block and heads for me to see exactly what it is I'm dealing with. (Thanks again, Bill) The biggest hurdle I see is finding a Contemporary pedal box that has a clutch pedal. Any ideas, guys? My gas pedal is seperate, not in the same box - I need to find an overhead pedal box with a brake and clutch pedal. Any ideas? This is by far my biggest concern on the project.

After I pull the engine I'll take off the oil pan, timing cover and intake, and try to determing as best I can what I have. I don't want to spend a alot on this thing, seeing that it's not my long term engine. I may throw a cam in it and a new carb, that's about it. Anything you guys think I should do while I'm in there that won't cost a bunch of money? It has good oil pressure now, should I throw in a oil pump anyway, or is that a waste of money? Are there significantly better pumps out there than Ford put in? The rear main doesn't appear to be leaking - I'm inclined to let it be. Any other quick ideas while I have it out? Again, thanks for all the input. It takes us old Chevy guys more time to learn the Ford way.

[autoxmike]

I have a 408 CI Clevor that my brother built circa 1993. Here is some interesting Cleveland head data from my archives. Hopefully it will be easy to read when I paste it into this message:

Cleveland Head FYI
------------------
Production cast iron Cleveland style heads have several different combustion chamber, valve, and port sizes. Closed chamber refers to the smaller volume heads and the 4V refers to the heads with larger ports and valves that originally came on cars with 4V carbs. There are also aftermarket SVO aluminum heads (C302, Yates) which bolt onto Cleveland blocks but have non-stock intake and exhaust port locations, requiring special manifolds.

Chamber Int/Exh Intake Exhaust Notes Casting
Volume Valve Dia Port Port Numbers
CC's inches inches inches


Boss 302W
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1969 61.3-64.3 2.23/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,3,8
1970 57.0-60.0 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,3,8

Boss 351C
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1971 66.1 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,8 D1ZE-B

351C 4V
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
70-71 62.8 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,8 DOAE-H,R
71 CJ 75.4 2.19/1.17 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,9 D1ZE-DA
72 HO 75.4 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,9,10 D2ZE-A
72-74 76.2 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,4,9 D1ZE-GA

351C 2V
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70-74 US 76.2 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,5 DOAE-E,J; DOAZ-A,B,D; D1ZE-CB; D1AE

351M/400
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
75-82 78.4 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,7 D5AE-AA; D5AZ
71-74 78.4 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,7 D1AE-A; D3AE-G2B

Aussie 2V
----------------------------------------------------------------
Aussie 2V 62.0 2.04/1.65 6,8
Aussie 2V 78 2.04/1.65 9,11



Notes:
1. Non-adjustable, cap screw with 5/16 inch bolt, pedestal rockers, non-hardened pushrods, multi-groove valves
2. Adjustable, 7/16 inch screw-in studs, guideplates, hardened pushrods, single groove valves
3. has intake manifold water thermostat passages to match 302W block
4. open-type combustion chamber and induction hardened exhaust valve seats, otherwise same as early 4V
5. Nearly identical to 351M/400 heads, oval exhaust ports
6. used on Australian 302C and 351C, fits US 2V intake and exhaust manifolds, rumored to have a slightly larger (10%) intake port, combustion chamber shape may be different that U.S. 4V closed chamber so pop-up pistons meant for 4V heads may not fit with clearancing
7. May have an additional EGR passage, otherwise nearly identical to US 351C 2V, oval exhaust ports
8. Closed chamber
9. Open chamber
10. open-type combustion chambers otherwise same as 71 Boss 351
11. Used on later Pantera 351C's which were sourced from Australia (probably originally meant for Australian truck applications), heads appear to be the same as U.S. 2V open chamber items.



Miscellaneous:
There are two major differences between the open chamber 2V and closed chamber 4V heads. First is the ports. The 4V heads have good intake ports and horrible exhaust ports. The 2V intakes flow almost as much, with considerably higher velocity, and have much better exhausts. The flow balance across the ports dramatically affects the engine's camshaft requirements.



The second difference is the combustion chamber shape. The open chamber head burns well, has low emissions, and is reasonably resistant to detonation at low (under 10:1) compression ratios. The closed chamber (also known as quench chambers) heads are more sensitive to octane, but the shorter flame path helps reduce required spark lead and makes more power. The fuel and timing requirements for open and closed chamber heads are much different. David Vizard claims open chamber heads respond well to multiple spark ignitions (e.g. MSD 6), requiring less ignition lead.

[Burgs]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

I need to find an overhead pedal box with a brake and clutch pedal. Any ideas?

Wilwood has a number of different options. This one is standard on the Hurricane kits.

http://www.wilwood.com/Products/005-...mtmc/index.asp