408 KC Crate engine and install package 17,000.00

[Keithc8]

If you are building a Cobra and want to install a small block Ford you might want to consider this package. Our 408 street package that makse 500HP and 525 ft/lbs of torque with flywheel, starter, clutch and pressure plate, bell housing indexed, air cleaner, brackets, pulleys, alternator, TK0 600 transmission, shifter, all fluids needed, alignment, MSD box and coil with wiring, installation of the engine and driveline, start up and testing of all parts ready to go. All of this for 17,000.00
Tired of being jerked around by three or four different places or paying to much. With this package you can get a Backdraft together for less than 50,000.00 and a Sperformance for less than 60,000.00. We even have some deals with some different dealers where we can get you the complete car turn key ready. Just let us know how we can help. Thanks, Keith Craft 870-246-7460

[Cashburn]

Why no dyno at this price? And what is the warranty?

[David-JBL]

This seems like a very reasonable price considering the engine, tranni, parts and the labor of the install and setup. I would think that if one wanted a warranty on top of this that one could be had at a reasonable price. For a comparison, what would a shop offer a Roush 402 setup with the same tranni, parts and setup. I don't know but I suspect that it would be more.

[trs900]

Looks like KC is becoming an all around dealer with Kirkhams-BD-SP will you handle the registration or will that be done by someone else with you just doing the install ??

[madmaxx]

David-jbl,

It all depends. I have to assume BDR and SPF give a little better pricing with "package deals" maybe not. I would think you could get a new SPF with 402R for $59K after all the haggling and a new similiar equipped (top tonneau etc) BDR for $54K. I love the cobra and rolex market, economy is tanking so BDR and SPF increase roller prices, Roush has an increase and Rolex increased by 10%!!!

More power to them!!!

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by David-JBL

This seems like a very reasonable price considering the engine, tranni, parts and the labor of the install and setup. I would think that if one wanted a warranty on top of this that one could be had at a reasonable price. For a comparison, what would a shop offer a Roush 402 setup with the same tranni, parts and setup. I don't know but I suspect that it would be more.

Would not be a fair comparison. Quickly looking at the difference the Roush 402 would included the following:

- Dart Block
- Dyno Test
- 2 Year In House Warranty

I just noticed on Keith's Web site he is now listing all engines as dyno tested, that is a great thing. I'm not knocking him, just trying to get our heads around the differences here. Will probably be doing business with him at these prices. We always need alternative suppliers to Roush.

[madmaxx]

I am curious, how long does it take to run a dyno test? 30 minutes, if you already own the equipment does it cost very much. Seams like a no brainer, dyno every engine.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

I am curious, how long does it take to run a dyno test? 30 minutes, if you already own the equipment does it cost very much. Seams like a no brainer, dyno every engine.

How many dyno runs? One? I remember I did 10 dyno runs playing with my BBC. Setup time takes a one or two hours, maybe more. I would guess half the day is shot with each dyno run.

[madmaxx]

Wow, I had no idea, half day for dyno.

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

I love the cobra and rolex market, economy is tanking so BDR and SPF increase roller prices, Roush has an increase and Rolex increased by 10%!!!

Forex (foreign exchange) market is driving the cost of a roller from South Africa. It made rollers more expensive since late '07 when the Rand had strengthened (dollar had fallen) about 12% in 6-7 months. Looking at the Forex today, the Rand has actually weakened against the dollar and the dollar has strengthened by about 10% vs one year ago (i.e. a Dollar buys 10% more Rands than it did in March '07).

Said another way (English), with the weakened U.S. economy and a stronger dollar (relative to the Rand, anyway), I could foresee Backdraft and SPF having to be willing to negotiate somewhat to work deals. Just my $0.02...your actual mileage may vary.

-Dean

[Cashburn]

That is a realistic time frame for what I have seen. All the setup and teardown is the primary consumer.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Madmax;

If you have never dynoed a motor or even been to a shop doing it, you have no idea what's involved.........Last motor I did (small block Ford), this is how it went.........

I backed up my truck at the shop with the motor in the back, ready to go, it took us probably 30 minutes to get it out of the truck and thru the shop and over the dyno station, then took three of us the better part of an hour to bolt it down, bolt on headers, bolt on flywheel, connect to dyno, connect to water cooling system,connect the oil pressure/oil temp lines,connect all the electricals needed (MSD)(O2 sensors and the like),bolt on a starter, connect to the fuel system, fill the carb, pull the distibutor and prime the oiling on the motor and re-install the distibutor and double check everything before attempting to fire it up.........then the operator has to get the computer up and running and plug in all the needed info (motor info/weather info) before you ever fire up the motor........

By the time we were ready to fire it up, about 2 hours had passed.......the motor started up on the first crank and we ran it for 25 minutes at 2,000 rpms for break-in....thankfully nothing leaked or broke, so we shut it down, I changed the plugs and we hooked up the timing light and began to make the first "pull"....We made 11 or 12 pulls, trying different timing settings and running it up to different rpm levels.....had hit the carb jetting right off (by accident)and only had to adjust the idle mixture and timing the whole time.......

Allowing for some cool down time bewteen pulls, we finally shut it down for good around 2:00pm and we never stopped for lunch..one of the shop guys ran out and got us some burgers which we ate while making pulls..........

Then after the motor cooled down "some", not nearly enough, but time is money, we started "unhooking" everything....water lines/oil lines/electrical lines/headers/bellhousing/flywheel/motor mounts and then you have to load it back up in the truck and drive 2 hours home and unload it again..............

Well, I guess you get the idea, a day is shot by now,heck it was almost dark when I got home.....and the good part was, NOTHING went wrong!!!!!!!!!! no oil or water leaks, no changing jets in the carb, no changing of anything,picture perfect day, for me, that is.........

Heading back to the dyno a week from today to do the same race motor, recent freshening and change of the cylinder heads, I hope all goes as good as last time..........

David

[FST FOX]

Great deal, takes away from the Engine Drop parties, wait we could just sit around and drink while you do all the work right?

[madmaxx]

David,

I had no idea!!!! Only saw dyno's on horsepower TV!!

[Keithc8]

David is correct about the the dyno deal and the time it takes. This package does include the engine being dyno tested and tuned. It also includes a two year warranty on the engine. You see there is no way that you can get a Roush engine and install anywhere near this. Check some pricing on a Superformance with a Roush engine and install and you will be doing good to get it done for 65,000.00 and probably more. You want the same engine as the Roush just add about 3000.00, still a deal.
When we dyno test an engine we add oil dye to the oil so that we can check for leaks with the black light and if there is any find where they are coming from. We break the engine in for about an hour, checking the timing, carburetor, bolts and other items. We then will make pulls on the engine tuning the carburetor for the engine. If the carburetor does not perform as it should we send it back and try another one. We have done so many of these engines we know where the power and torque should be.
The other reason we are offering this deal is that I have less problems if I install the engine and start it. I can check the timing in the car as well as other things that might cause a problem. I have seen about everthing done to these engines over the years.
Just trying to offer a service that might help people save 5000.00 to 10,000.00 and afford a Cobra. Jay you seem to have a negative few towards my product yet you have never used one, just wondring why. Thanks, Keith Craft

[FST FOX]

This is my 2nd KCM motor and I am very excited, my other stroker lasted 5years as a daily, being beat on, never had a singal oil leak or problem, sold the car last year and didn't hesitate when it came time to order my new motor for my Cobra

[Cashburn]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

Jay you seem to have a negative few towards my product yet you have never used one, just wondring why. Thanks, Keith Craft

I think you should read my comment above. I don't have a problem either way with the product. My concern is with the presentation of X vs. Y. Here's my main thoughts and you can let me know on them.

1.) It is difficult to see what the warranty policy is, now it is stated at 2 years. That is great news and peaks my interest further. Would that warranty cover the following scenario as Roush has/does:

After year of operation customer notices a high oil consumption. Roush authorizes and pays us to remove the engine, ship it back, and reinstall after they do a complete teardown and rebuild and dyno. At no cost to the customer and we are fully covered for warranty work/time. All this is done through Roush with no 3rd party approvals needed.

2.) All engines at listed prices include dyno time?

3.) Component vs. Component comparison is necessary when stating an X dollar of savings. So break it down a little...

- Block (Dart vs. Seasoned)
- Starter (Powermaster vs. ???)
- Alternator (Powermaster vs. ???)
- Pulleys (Billet vs. ???)
- Brackets (Billet vs. ???)
- Wire Holders (Billet vs. plastic)

I respect what others have said about your product and everyone seems thrilled, I don't think however the $$$ to $$ comparison is accurate and that's my only concern. Would still like a price sheet so we can consider working with you and getting a better understanding of why KC is best "bang for the buck" which is something totally different. My fax 203.269.9249.

[trs900]

Are you able to do a chassis dyno after engine is installed in car for actual rear wheel horse power for extra charge, again who will handle paper work on car BDR dealer- Kirkham or you...Thanks

[RodKnock]

In my past efforts in purchasing crate engines, I've had a sometimes tough time trying to reconcile the differences, and there always are, of one builder's crate engine from another builder's crate engine. Do they both have forged steel cranks, I-beam versus H-beam connecting rods, CNC'ed aluminum heads versus non-CNC'ed aluminum heads, SB's have a variety of choices too, oil pans, carbs, camshafts and their specs, old seasoned versus new engine blocks (Dart, World, Keith Black, etc.)? Along with what Jay mentions above.

While the engine builders can make these comparisons for the consumer, I think the ultimate responsibility for making an informed choice is us the consumer, which includes companies like Jay's that sell complete packages.

[jhv48]

KC, wish you were on the west coast!