Oil Changes With An Oil Cooler

Rickd · #1 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 08:47 AM

Just have 850 miles on my new ERA and ran her up on my new $45 Auto Zone rubber ramps for the first oil change this morning. The oil level was normal, and a 302 (331 stroker) holds 5 quarts - that is my understanding. Allowing 1/2 quart for the oil cooler and 1 qt for the filter I expected to "drain" 3.5 - 4.0 quarts. Being psyched for the "virgin oil change" I drained and immediately poured in 5 quarts of new KC recommended 10W 40 Castrol, and then checked the oil. Much to my surprise it is about 3/8" to 1/2" above the MAX line. I deposited the OLD oil in the empty quart bottles and I had removed ONLY 2 quarts!!! Cranked her up and oil pressure is at almost 60 at idle, rather than the normal 40, and at 3000 rpm comes close to 75. I'm heading to a marine store for a small pump to pull some oil out via the dip stick rather than "pull the plug" on the oil pan. I assume it is not a good thing to run the motor with a quart to quart and a half too much oil - but what specifically would be the result of running with too much oil and too high a pressure?? Thanks. Rickd in Miami.

PatBuckley · #2 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 09:51 AM

New oil often increases the oil pressure a bit, but perhaps you were low on oil? If adding oil increases your pressure as you say then perhaps you didn't have enough oil in it.

Did you calibrate your dipstick?

What kind of oil pan are you using?

I use an Avaiad pan which leaves about a quart of oil in the pan when I drain it with no way to get it out.

Bob In Ct · #3 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 11:03 AM

Don't run the engine even a little bit with too much oil. If the crank gets into the oil it will foam it up.

Sometimes going to a thinner oil will increase the gauge pressure because the pressure sensor is on the engine side of the cooler and filter. The original thicker oil did not flow as well and much of it went out the by-pass. The new thinner oil is able to flow through both the filter and cooler and thus provide higher pressure to the engine

Just my $0.02

Bob

mr0077 · #4 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 11:22 AM

Did you also change the filter? It will hold 3/4 qt, and if you checked the new level without firing it up, the new filter was empty, so it would show over full...Not sure what the problem is if you didn't change the filter also...unless it is dip stick calibration or didn't drain completely as mentioned above.

CHANMADD · #5 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 01:07 PM

I beg to differ , a little too much oil and the key word is a"little" won't do any harm. When your motor is spinning at 3000rpm plus there is probably at least 1 quart of oil in the engine and up in the valve cover area.So the level actually drops down whilst running.

vettestr · #6 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 06:27 PM

Hey RickD,
75 PSI at 3000 RPM with oil not up to operating temp is not a dangerous high pressure 75 PSI at 3K RPM with oil/engine at operating temp is not a dangerous pressure either but it may be more than your engine needs.

Possible harms from a Too High oil pressure are many and can range from burst oil filters or lines, breaking oil pump drive or hurting the bearings with worm like channels eaten out of the surface. The oil bypass may open bypassing filtering or not suppling engine. It takes horsepower to create oil pressure and more for high pressure. All this is way more than 75 PSI though.

Too much oil or to the point that the crank whips it into a froth is of course bad but the average amount of surface area in a pan help that from happening but.... Depending on how lines are run and height of everything in relation to the sump level of the oil pan can be misleading. I had one car built so the oil would run back from a cooler and the filter and and lines so it would read about 2 quarts over full if you allowed enough time for it to drain down. This was not a Cobra and needed a check valve to stop it from drain all the lines. If you checked the dipstick before drain-back it was just right. It was too low with the engine running when filled to full line.

fsstnotch · #7 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 07:00 PM

I'm somewhat surprised KC recommends castrol since it has been tested and found to gunk up more than any other oil on the market.

mr0077 · #8 (**permalink**) 03-15-2008, 11:55 PM

fsstnotch, what is your source on Castrol?

venum14 · #9 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 07:57 AM

As you stated:Just have 850 miles on my new ERA and ran her up on my new $45 Auto Zone rubber ramps for the first oil change this morning.

If you only had the car on two ramps, due to the incline oil remained in the pan. If it is a front sump pan oil was at the back of the pan assuming you had the front on the ramps. See my point, sump location, drain plug, etc.

Hope it helps.

Rickd · #10 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 11:28 AM

Thanks for the responses guys. The car was on two ramps - front end elevated - flat bottomed oil pan with drain plug in th rear so should have gotte most out. Ran the motor for a while and still got pretty high pressures.
Pulled out 2 quarts via dip stick shaft. Did run her for a few miles and put her to bed for the night. Measured again this morning and now she was down a quart (imagine that filling the oil filter and pulling 2 out had it's impact). Put another quart in and the dip stick read just about right. Ran her 10 miles from home and back, and psi settled to 45 or so on idle and up to 60 going through the gears. Will check with KC for details on the calibration of dip stick etc. Also trying to get Brad Penn oil - but it does not come in a 10w 40 so I might go for the Brad Penn 10w 30, as Brad Penn is supposed to be a real nice oil, high in zinc as well. Had a nice run this morning from Coral Gables down to the Homestead Motor Speedway - a couple of nice little straights down there where you can take em at least through 3rd, gettin on it. Feels real good. Have fun. Rickd.

fsstnotch · #11 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr0077

fsstnotch, what is your source on Castrol?

Just google oil comparision. There have been lots of tests. The syntec is better than the traditional but still not great. Also there is a thread on CC about using Rotella T with links to the sources. And actually, i stand corrected. Pennzoil was the worst. Then Castrol.

I use valvoline VR1 20w50 in my race car and it hasn't failed me. of course it is changed about every 4 nights at the longest.

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50

mr0077 · #12 (**permalink**) 03-16-2008, 09:51 PM

fssnotch, I agree that VR1 is probably the best oil currently available for flat-tappet engines, but I still can't find anything saying Castrol is second worst oil in any way. There's way too much info to search through on CC looking for that comparison, but I don't remember reading anything like that here or anywhere else...don't mean to hijack this thread, but can anyone point to a definitive source that rates Castrol poorly? The best source I can find is here
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
and apparently those guys are okay with it (for roller tappet with the new GTX).

mpanten · #13 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr0077

fssnotch, I agree that VR1 is probably the best oil currently available for flat-tappet engines, but I still can't find anything saying Castrol is second worst oil in any way. There's way too much info to search through on CC looking for that comparison, but I don't remember reading anything like that here or anywhere else...don't mean to hijack this thread, but can anyone point to a definitive source that rates Castrol poorly? The best source I can find is here
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
and apparently those guys are okay with it (for roller tappet with the new GTX).

Castrol is fine, I think people get a little to worked up over the brand of oil. It;s not like these cars go 7k miles between oil changes. I cant remember where I found it but the test I saw had castrol performing pretty well. I run 15w40 diesel castrol.

Clois Harlan · #14 (**permalink**) 03-17-2008, 08:12 AM

I have ran Castroil and I thought it was very good oil. I put over 4000 miles on my race engine before I tore my engine down and there was NOT a lot of gunk inside. I also run 110 Octane leaded fuel when I am on the track so there should have been a lot more junk inside my engine but there was NOT. I do change my oil before an event and after the event if I have driven very many street miles.

I will either run Castroil or Valvoline VR1 with a modifier, because I run a flat tappet cam and solid lifters. Never had a problem of any kind related to oil break down.

Clois Harlan