Cup motor thoughts

[ERA Chas]

Just speculating here and wondering about the possibilities of a cup-style motor with Webers.
358 inch Elliot, Yates or Roush detuned to 11:1, somewhere around 700HP.
Admittedly, I don't know much about cams for these and I think the carbs are between 900 and 1100CFM.
I do know that Webers don't want a lot of overlap and duration. I'm speculating that 48IDA's are around 1000CFM. I may be full of soup so experts, please correct me.
Open to any discussion on this subject. I'm sure you don't see this type of combo because it doesn't work.
But boy the prospect is tantalizing.

[FWB]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Just speculating here and wondering about the possibilities of a cup-style motor with Webers.
358 inch Elliot, Yates or Roush detuned to 11:1, somewhere around 700HP.
Admittedly, I don't know much about cams for these and I think the carbs are between 900 and 1100CFM.
I do know that Webers don't want a lot of overlap and duration. I'm speculating that 48IDA's are around 1000CFM. I may be full of soup so experts, please correct me.
Open to any discussion on this subject. I'm sure you don't see this type of combo because it doesn't work.
But boy the prospect is tantalizing.

your not so far off...in 2006 i had the pleasure of joining a track day at lebanon valley dragway. the long island cobra club rented the track. there was a gentleman (andrew) thats all i remember, he had a retired winston cup motor with a single 4 on it mild cam. he smoked all the big blocks including me with low 10's passes. i had the great pleasure of beating him finally during the day, but only because he sprayed his clutch all over the track. it was very consistant and the stick shift let him hook up.
the webers well.....lets just say it would look good, but i think the single 4 is the way to go.

[tcrist]

They did that for Rusty Wallace on one of the reality car shows on the tv. I think it was West Coast Customs that put it in Rusty's 58 Chevy Nomad. It was detuned to around 650-700 HP from what I remember. How long it would last is anybodys guess. It was carb'd though.

Terry

[ERA Chas]

FWB,
I know Andrew and his Shelby/Cup car well. I was on track at Westhampton a different day barely touching 11's 11's and he was casually ripping off mid 10's on drag Nittos.
He's part of the reason I'm fascinated about Cup motors in these cars.

[mpanten]

I know Goldberg has one in his cobra from ernie elliot.

[ERA Chas]

Goldberg could not shed any deep technical insights here.
OK then, how many guys are running Cup motors on here??

[vector1]

i built my own motor and sat a cup on top, is that cup motor?

[RICK LAKE]

ERA Chas Are you looking at a busch motor, truck motor, or Nascar? Some will only run with dry sump systems, Some blocks have roller bearing for the camshafts, you need a special camshaft to run in that block. The intake manifold are very tall. If you are looking for a motor, try googling used nascar race parts. There is place that sell all the stuff like qualifier motors and motors that have run a race or too. You better take a machinist that knows alot about what he is looking at. Cost wise, the only thing you may save on is buying an aluminum block, but will need the correct heads to fit on it. They cut every angle of the block and heads you can think of. I think without any specs and running a 358 motor with 48 webers you will be limited to about 7,100 rpms. 48 mm only flow about 280 cfms per carb with work. Why not call KCR and get a price on one of his stroker windsors ready to run on the street. A 427 windsor would be better with a .600" camshaft and your webers. Build a big torque motor with 6,500 rpm limit and this will run with the big boys and last for years with little maintainance. Rick L. Terry Pendenton is running a nascar Ernie Elliot motor in his cobra, that was years ago. He had the money for it. Brutal car that ran 1/4 mile in the 10's. Ps I build my own motors and put a glass of wine on it when running, I am still waiting for the cheese and crackers.

[ERA Chas]

Hey, Rick,
Thanks for a serious post with INFO in it. To be clear, I'm not looking to do this as I'm a solid FE guy.
I have much experience with Windsors and Clevors and am well aware of the power available. Had my hands on Elliot and Kuntz heads which were works of art flowing 400 numbers at .650-.700. Yes, they want straight port TALL intakes. I just realized one day that you never see one with a Weber set and wondered if the owners or builders could explain why not. At least I guessed right about 1100 CFM for, as you say for worked Webers.
You raise good points about the type of such motors like qualifers (which I don't think would live long on the street-hollow cams and God know what else) and Busch etc.
I guess it all comes down to piston selection, a solid roller around .700 and driveability-all of which don't seem suited to Webers.
I think one in a GT 40 would be B***hin' though.
You and Vector have to find better 'cupholders'.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by mpanten

I know Goldberg has one in his cobra from ernie elliot.

It was a stroker motor, somewhere above 400 cu.in., made north of 900hp........

Goldberg sold the car at the BJ auction a few years ago.......

PS: I don't care for cup motors in street car applications, too many custom/high dollar parts on them and not enough off-the-shelf parts........

David