SUPERFORMANCE NEWS: Product Update :: MK-III SWAY BARS - Page 2

Silverback51 · #21 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinW

well i'm glad someones got something useful from SPF.

I gathered together a UK group buy on fluted knobs and associated accessories with them, waiting now for almost 6 months, already paid in full. Still waiting for SPF SA to sort out suppliers.

The sway bars did not come from SPF.

Blas · #22 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010, 06:20 AM

Without some type of lubrication and/or a bronze bearing surface, Aren't you concerned with galling of the aluminum contact surfaces on the blocks against the power coated sway bars?
The clearances appear tight from the photos...(Beautiful Workmanship I might add). At minimum, the powder coated contact surfaces will deteriorate and increase frictional loads.
I would think you would want the rotational movement of the sway bars to transfer from one wheel to the other with minimal losses due to rotational friction. I have actually seen roller bearings used in this application to minimize the rotational frictional losses on the bars.
Just something to consider...
Blas#760

Silverback51 · #23 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blas

Without some type of lubrication and/or a bronze bearing surface, Aren't you concerned with galling of the aluminum contact surfaces on the blocks against the power coated sway bars?
The clearances appear tight from the photos...(Beautiful Workmanship I might add). At minimum, the powder coated contact surfaces will deteriorate and increase frictional loads.
I would think you would want the rotational movement of the sway bars to transfer from one wheel to the other with minimal losses due to rotational friction. I have actually seen roller bearings used in this application to minimize the rotational frictional losses on the bars.
Just something to consider...
Blas#760

I have answered most of your questions over on the SCOF site in a reply to Randall.

In regard to galling, that usually happens when you have two similar materials that are riding on each other. The sway bar is steel, and the frame mounts are aluminum. The aluminum would wear, but you would not get a transfer of material (galling) since the steel is harder and not wearing.

Blas · #24 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010, 04:25 PM

I'm not on the SCOF site anymore....

Silverback51 · #25 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blas

I'm not on the SCOF site anymore....

Sorry.

Let me post what I did there.

"I think I’m going to have to disagree on some of this Randy.

If the bar was clamped between the frame mounts, I would agree that the balance would be affected. However there is .0015 to .0025 clearance between the bar and the mount. The sway bar is free to move in the frame mounts. All these frame mounts do is remove the compression of the polyurethane bushings. So instead of the car starting to lean until the polyurethane bushings are compressed, and then the torsion action of the sway bar taking affect, the sway bar takes affect almost immediately. This is no different than the spherical hiem joints replacing the rubber or polyurethane bushings where the sway bar mounts to the a-arms. All it’s doing is removing the compliance in those parts. The torsion rate of the sway bar is not changed.

The movement of the sway bar in the mounts is minimal. Assuming a wheel movement of +/- 2.0 inches, the approximate movement of the sway bar in the frame mount is .19 total movement. That’s at the front bar. It’s considerably less at the rear. It’s not like it’s spinning at 1000 RPM. However, to address this issue, over the winter I will be removing these mounts, and machining them to accept some 936 bronze inserts. I will also add provisions for greasing them which will address the binding issue.

And you are correct, they don’t look that pretty as they are still in the rough machined stage. Just wanted to mount them up to see how they worked before I put any more effort into them. When I’m done I will give them a nice satin finish. Polished would just require me to clean them up incase someone looked under the car.

John, SPF# 532"

I don't believe I'm violating any SCOF rules here, as I'm only posting what I sent. And needless to say, Randall and I don't seem to see eye to eye on this issue.

Blas · #26 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010, 06:01 PM

Thanks for the re-statement of your SCOF post here on CC.
I think it's ok to reprint your own comments that you post on the other site...But then again....maybe not...check the fine print...hahahaha

Note:
And I earlier stated "...(Beautiful Workmanship I might add)" They will look even better when you are finished with them....

Inertia · #27 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010, 06:38 PM

Great work John,
I (like others it seems) am confused as to the seemingly endless list of modifications to the RT sway bar kit.
I understand from an engineering point of view that due to the exceedingly low sample number of cars fitted that it is a work in progress and that the alterations/modifications may be improve the performance in a certain area better than other area such as track vs road.

However (to state it simply) for the average joe who is unlikely to seriously race but enjoys the 'spirited' runs on general roads are these extra mods needed?

Cheers
Steve

Silverback51 · #28 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inertia

Great work John,
I (like others it seems) am confused as to the seemingly endless list of modifications to the RT sway bar kit.
I understand from an engineering point of view that due to the exceedingly low sample number of cars fitted that it is a work in progress and that the alterations/modifications may be improve the performance in a certain area better than other area such as track vs road.

However (to state it simply) for the average joe who is unlikely to seriously race but enjoys the 'spirited' runs on general roads are these extra mods needed?

Cheers
Steve

Do you need to go with the solid mounts like I did? No. I did it because I had the time needed something to keep me busy. However, I would recommend the sway bar kit to anyone that has a Superformance Cobra. The improvement in handling is amazing.

And I should mention that I have not to this point taken my car out on a track. I do however, like you enjoy spirited runs on some roads at times if the conditions are right.

PANAVIA · #29 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010, 03:23 AM

I wonder if this swaybar upgrade would be overkill for the novice SPF driver -- maybe a good upgrade after you are comfortable in your own skin, and in concert with a good alignment shop.

-- this way you can take advantage of the bar'(s) and not chew a hole in your Avons, or your wallet. -- bars by themselves do not usually alter tire angles, but it is not a bad idea to have the alignment checked out whenever you do a mod.

Inertia · #30 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010, 05:49 AM

Thanks John,
One has just to enjoy a spirited run and all is good with the world eh?

I will look into the RT set up as the std one is not up to scratch.

Cheers
Steve

Inertia · #31 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010, 06:13 AM

Steve wrote,
"I wonder if this swaybar upgrade would be overkill for the novice SPF driver"
...
that us a good point Steve,

I am a little in the 'my brain is full' category at the moment regarding suspension setups.

Steve

Silverback51 · #32 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANAVIA

I wonder if this swaybar upgrade would be overkill for the novice SPF driver -- maybe a good upgrade after you are comfortable in your own skin, and in concert with a good alignment shop.

-- this way you can take advantage of the bar'(s) and not chew a hole in your Avons, or your wallet. -- bars by themselves do not usually alter tire angles, but it is not a bad idea to have the alignment checked out whenever you do a mod.

Personally I don't think it makes a difference if the driver is a novice or an experienced race driver. If the change raises the level of handling of the car, and makes it more predicable, then it's better for either driver.

I will need to buy another set of Avons next year before I go on vacation again. At that time I will have the entire suspension set up checked by a race shop, so I'm not that concerned about the alignment. Although, sway bars should not change the alignment as they do not change the location of any suspension components.

Silverback51 · #33 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inertia

Thanks John,
One has just to enjoy a spirited run and all is good with the world eh?

I will look into the RT set up as the std one is not up to scratch.

Cheers
Steve

They are not cheap, but in my opinion they are worth it. Also the quality of the components is second to none.