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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-27-2014, 05:12 PM
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Default Ride Heights

I get it that this post is about esthetics but you guys are scaring me using fender opening heights for ride height checks. You should always do ride height from fixed locations on the frame because that will dictate what your roll center heights, camber, and roll axis are, among other things. If you get the appearance you want with the correct ride height great. If not make sure there isn't a body location problem. Not that it matters but frame rail to ground at front of frame on my CSX = 3.00" Rear rail to ground at center of inboard main link = 3.20"
mickmate, legenmetals and Bobcat like this.
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Old 12-27-2014, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra #3170 View Post
I get it that this post is about esthetics but you guys are scaring me using fender opening heights for ride height checks. You should always do ride height from fixed locations on the frame because that will dictate what your roll center heights, camber, and roll axis are, among other things. If you get the appearance you want with the correct ride height great. If not make sure there isn't a body location problem. Not that it matters but frame rail to ground at front of frame on my CSX = 3.00" Rear rail to ground at center of inboard main link = 3.20"
Wouldn't this also be variable depending on aspect ratio/size of your tires?
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:00 AM
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The difference in appearance between the SPF and cars like the CSX's, ERA's and Kirkhams is more of a body shape/fitment issue than ride height settings and roll bar heights. Superformance, like many others, based their body on the CCX or Contemporary body in a mistaken subscription to the myth that they are the "most accurate Cobra replicas". The truth is that while the early Contemporary bodies may have indeed been splashed from an original Cobra, they chose to alter the shapes drastically in some odd attempt according to them to better fit the lower profile 50-series tires being used at the time of production.

The result was a higher, chunkier body sitting higher up on the frame, with lowered and reshaped wheel openings more radiused to the shape of the tires. The rear arches and cowl of the CCX shape are much higher over the frame than the original Cobra body, and this contributes to the strange appearance of the roll bar. Its not so much that the roll bar was lowered - the bodywork around the roll bar was raised up around it.

I'm actually a bit adamant about the whole CCX myth because it resulted in those less attractive traits being injected into the replica gene pool when newer manufacturers like FFR, Everett-Morrison and Superformance mistakenly saw the Contemporary shape as the gold standard to replicate. That distinctive high-butt, chunky-side look spread throughout the industry, leaving other brands more accurately based on the original shape looking noticeably lower, leaner, sleeker and meaner.

Superformance recognised this and made some after the fact modifications to their bodies to reverse it, but were only able to go so far with the existing chassis and packaging.

Everyone wondered why FFR never re-engineered their cars as CCX clones after they purchased the molds and tooling, etc when Contemporary folded? Most likely the reason is that they were already based on the CCX shape and using bodies out of the original CCX molds would not have made their cars significantly more accurate in appearance.

Using superficial methods like lowering the ride height and raising the roll bar will make some difference, but you'll end up with a roll bar that towers above the windshield, a ground-scraping oil pan and rubbing tires long before an SPF will ever look like an ERA or Kirkham.

There are others here that know these truths, but dare not commit the heresy of defiling the reputation of the all-holy Contemporary. That is not my intention either - they were well built cars and most are finished to a beautiful level of quality. I just don't like the shape of the body; and the untruth that it is the most accurate replica I like even less. I'm certain Jimmy Price, owner of Hi-Tech regretted not doing a bit more research before buying in to that fairy tale.

This may make some people angry, but it is essentially the truth. The other truth is that it shouldn't really matter to anyone other than those who are a bit obsessed with the shape, look and stance of the original Cobra. SPF owners rightfully love their cars - they are without a doubt one of the best products in the entire replica industry. They are however, differently shaped to the ERA's/CSX's and one can only go so far towards changing that with simple modifications.

There are articles referencing and documenting all of the CCX/SPF shape issues if anyone cares or is curious enough to do a bit of searching.

Once again this is my pet peeve about the body shape perceptions and is in no way intended to be a derogatory commentary about anyone's choice of Cobra replica. They are all distinctive and unique in their own ways and appeal to their owners for many different reasons.
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Old 12-28-2014, 06:25 AM
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Dang, Buzz. Not only was that post exceptionally well-written, it was authoritative to boot! Two small issues that tend to irritate me are the pedals that come down from the cowl, instead of up from the floor, and wipers that park to the wrong side. Straight up and down radiators have already been posted. Those, I think, could be fixed, if you were really determined. The shape problems probably can't.
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Old 12-28-2014, 10:23 AM
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Default Ride Height Varibility

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66gtk View Post
Wouldn't this also be variable depending on aspect ratio/size of your tires?
Yes, but I am assuming that the person doing the measuring knows what he or she wants in terms of control arm angles with a given tire diameter. The ride height would be a result with those angles. A smaller diameter tire would lower the ride height and a larger tire would obviously raise it. Using the frame reference points will eliminate the body openings as another variable.
The concern is that if the car is set up to look "good" in terms of tire to wheel opening you could end up with a potentially dangerous geometry condition.
These cars are spooky enough when they are set up correctly, they can become un-driveable with the front or rear roll center way out of specification.
I am probably prejudiced by the fact that original cars were different at every corner in terms of tire to body because the bodies were so far off. The frame and suspension points were very good and symmetrical however, so that is what we use. Manufactures are generally pretty careful about the pick up points so they are not nearly as variable as a body opening because that would not be treated with the same care and repeatability.
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Old 05-06-2015, 09:29 AM
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Here are a few pics of SPF-2271. Rear Fender well is 25.5" high.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj4Ua4h3MMY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj4Ua4h3MMY[/ame]














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