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Old 06-20-2016, 07:26 AM
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Default Body Work Instruction For Beginners?

I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for tutorials or videos for absolute beginners doing body work.

I have a MK3 Factory Five Roadster that is still very rough. I would like to do all the work myself, to make the car truly start to finish, even if the final product is not as good as a professional job.

Does anyone have any suggestions on basics for doing body work of this kind?

Thanks!
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Old 06-20-2016, 07:55 AM
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Get Kevin Tetz videos, Body Shop Basics and Paint Your Own Car. Eastwood Co. has them. FFr forum has a lot of information.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:20 AM
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One thing you need to be aware of is that the FFR body is made from vinylester resin and glass. Any body repairs or mods will need to be made with vinylester based products or you will negatively impact overall repair strength and durability. For a heavy fiber reinforced filler (working gaps, fender edges, etc.) use 3M HSRF, available at marine supply houses. For fiberglass repairs (filling a miscut hole, cracks, etc.) use glass and vinylester resin, available at several composite supply houses.
For normal bodywork, the industry standard polyester based products work fine. Opinions on which is best vary widely.
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Old 06-20-2016, 01:33 PM
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Agree! Kevin's Eastwood videos are great.

Good for you for choosing to tackle your car's paint and body work yourself.

I taught myself how to repair and paint fiberglass when I restored my 69 Corvette about 15 years ago. Here are some recommendations regarding the "basics" you asked for:

** Disclaimer - I'm not Pro at paint and body- I'm another amateur (like you) who took a chance, and ventured down the same road you are getting ready to go down. I'm going to post my opinions, viewpoints, and explain what I did (and how I did it) - Some of my points and techniques might be debated by the real pros; so you will have to digest all the information (and opinions) you get on this topic, and decide for yourself.

That being said- Here are both of my 2 cents (dumped into 10 paragraphs )

1) Don't spend a ton on sanding blocks, long boards and expensive guns - You don't need them. Save the money for sand paper, masking paper, and tape (you WILL need those- and more of each than you can possibly imagine )

You can put a really smooth, shiny, reflective surface on a car using a cheap 6-inch DA sander to remove material, and hand-sanding all your finished surfaces using a paint stir-stick as your block sander, and a medium firmness kitchen sponge as your fine color and contour sander. Sponges are cheap, and stir sticks are free, in unlimited supply at the local Home Depot. Just wrap your sandpaper around them, and go...

2) Remember, sand paper should never move in a circular direction on a car (unless you are using your DA to remove material)- Always finish-sand in a cross-hatch pattern, even when you are following the curves on a fender.

3) Don't freak out about runs- For a rookie, runs are inevitable.

When I painted my Corvette, I made runs that were so bad, it looked like a black candle had melted and dripped down the sides. Razor blades, sandpaper, time and patience were all that were necessary to make it look like this:



I did this car using a cheap harbor freight 6 inch DA, a well used, 20 year old bottom-pot spray gun; some sponges, paint sticks, and following the process below- This was only the second car I ever painted, and was/is by far the best looking finished car I've ever done.

(again- I'm not a pro, so please take all this as "my way", and not as "the way".. its all JMHO):

1) I took the car down to gelcoat with 50 grit on my DA (It was Monaco Orange originally, and the orange had to go ) You can use 50 grit on a new body to rough out the mold lines, and any low areas where you need to add body filler and do any re-shaping)

(See MikeinAtlanta's points above about using vinylester fillers on vinylester gelcoat- seems like very good advice)

2) I filled and rough shaped all the low areas, seams, and fiberglass repairs that needed to be built up (again using 50 grit)

3) I quick-blocked the whole car with 240 grit (wrapped around a sponge) before sealing everything up with Epoxy primer

(Again- read Mike's comments above about the resin substrates- If you are changing chemistries between your gelcoat/filler, versus your finish top coats (like I did), then a layer of epoxy in between them will promote adhesion (From what I've read, epoxy sticks to just about everything, and just about everything sticks to epoxy), just double check and make sure that the data sheet for the epoxy specifies that it will bond correctly to your resin type.

4) I cleaned, masked, and sprayed mine with PPG DP epoxy primer, and let it dry.

5) I lightly dry-blocked the epoxy with 240 grit (still wrapped around a sponge), being careful not to sand through the epoxy (just re-spray, and re-block any areas if you do get any sand-throughs)

6) I cleaned, masked and sprayed 2 heavy wet coats of acrylic urethane surfacer (I used PPG K36) over the freshly sanded and cleaned epoxy, and let it dry.

7) Misted it with a sanding guide coat, and dry blocked the car again with 320, followed by 600 (wrapped around paint sticks)

8) cleaned, masked, and resprayed one more thick, wet coat of urethane surfacer and let it dry

9) another guide coat misted on, and dry sanded with 600 on a paint stick until the guide coat was almost gone, then wet sanded with 600 on a sponge until the rest of the guide coat was gone and the surface was smooth and ready for paint.

10) cleaned, masked, and sprayed my top color (I used 5 coats of single stage PPG Acrylic Urethane Concept DCC- coat #1 was a little over-reduced and sprayed lightly just to "grab" the sanded primer, followed by 4 thicker coats to build up the finish) If you use a 2- stage product, then this is the step where you would apply your base coat, followed by more sanding (if there are runs), followed by your clear coat)

I let my top coat dry overnight, and then I went around and carefully cut off as many of the "severe" runs as I could with a razor blade. Then I let it dry for 3 more days, and started color sanding. I lightly wet sanded the rough spots (the runs, and the worst orange peel areas) with 600 first, then I wet sanded the whole car with 1000, followed by another wet sand with 1500. (for all the color-coat sanding, I used a sponge as my sanding pad)

Then it was rubbing compound on a cutting foam pad, followed by swirl remover on a medium pad, followed by hand polish, followed by wax...

Followed by pride, followed by beer, followed by relief that a long 3 month process was over...


This paint job on my Corvette seems to have held up well since 2002, because I found the car for sale in Florida a few months back. (I know it's my old car for several reasons:, They posted a picture of the VIN number in the ad (as well as the JVC stereo I installed), and the "350 HP" sticker I put on the air cleaner is still crooked , and I'm pretty sure GM didn't sell many factory-air, 4-speed T-top Corvettes with non-power brakes in 1969) -

It's had about 40k miles put on it since I sold it in 2003 with 60k original on the odo, But it still looks pretty good to me:

1969 Chevrolet Chevy Corvette Coupe T-Tops 4 Speed A/C For Sale
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Old 06-20-2016, 02:32 PM
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Robert,
Thank you so much for your reply. Your car looks great. You have really given me some motivation! I was most concerned about runs on the vehicle, but it seems like no matter what happens everything can be corrected with a bit of sanding!
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Old 06-20-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moore_rb View Post

(Again- read Mike's comments above about the resin substrates- If you are changing chemistries between your gelcoat/filler, versus your finish top coats (like I did), then a layer of epoxy in between them will promote adhesion (From what I've read, epoxy sticks to just about everything, and just about everything sticks to epoxy), just double check and make sure that the data sheet for the epoxy specifies that it will bond correctly to your resin type.
Robert,
Pardon the truncated quote.

Just to be clear. While I don't know much about the chemical makup of epoxy primers or paints, in the world of composites epoxy and vinylester do not play well together and should not be mixed. I am specifically referring to repair products, not paint products (beyond my area).

On the FFR body, you can do lower strength repairs with polyester, but you should stay away from anything epoxy based. The gelcoat on the FFR body is polyester. I suggest seeking specific primer advice from one of the many experts on FFR body prep.

Sorry if I sound argumentative, it just that this is one peculiar thing about the FFR body that makes it different than just about all the rest.
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Old 06-20-2016, 04:31 PM
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All good advice above so I'll try not to repeat but here are some random tips.

- Before starting clean the body thoroughly with soap and water, then degreaser (like DuPont Prep Sol) and then completely scuff it with a 3M pad.

- Before starting with body work, get the body firmly mounted in final position on the chassis and do the best job of fitting the doors, hood and trunk that you can work out. You need to do all the grinding, fitting and roughing in of the bodywork on the chassis or you will have a mess when it comes time to assemble the car after paint.

- The first thing I did was block sand the whole body roughly, including across all panel gaps, so that all of the low areas stood out where the sandpaper did not make contact. Then I mapped them all out on a sketch and sanded each one individually and applied filler to get it roughly up to grade.

- You are going to need at least 2 gallons of filler (maybe 3) so buy in bulk. Rage Gold is always a good choice. Don't be surprised if about 40% of the body (or more) is covered by a thin to very thin layer of filler when ready for paint.

- I have an ERA so I've never fully understood what is going on with the FFR mold joints. I don't believe in grinding away perfectly good fiberglass and thinning out the panel thickness but I'll let the FFR guys address this.

- Buy sandpaper in bulk rolls with a self-adhesive back. I bought a lot of supplies from TCPGlobal.

- A set of Durablocks works for sanding. I have a bunch of wooden blocks I've cut out of a length of 2 x 2 and 1 x 4 premium oak or poplar. I buy the best, dead straight 4 or 6 ft piece I can find after checking with a level and by eye in the store and cut them to the length I need. Great for leveling a flat area and even for gradual curve areas. You need some round sanding forms for the inside curves next to the fender bulges and wheel well flares. I've used wood dowels, swimming pool floats, Durablock sticks, stiff rubber hose, etc. Don't be afraid to use your ingenuity.

- If you round the cockpit edges select a short piece of PVC pipe with the approximate inside diameter that you want on the edge (usually about 1 inch) and section it in half to create a filler screed. Apply a thick bead of filler along the edge and then use the half-round to push/form it into a rounded edge. Sand and repeat until it's nice and uniform. A piece of 1-1/4 PVC, cut in two allows for applying a section of sandpaper inside and sanding the curve.

- Sand everything in a cross-hatch pattern - curves, flats, inside radius curves, everything.

- An inexpensive adjustable template guide is useful for comparing curves and radius' from one side of the body to the other. On my ERA, one side was a little flat around the headlight and I used the template guide to help fill and shape the curvature to match the good side.

- Learn to run the palm of your hand over the surface as you work it and study it. After awhile you will be surprised how running your hand over the curves will tell you about irregularities that the eye can't easily see.

- Most fiberglass bodies have a slight dip built into the surface at all mold lines. That's done to allow for some filler to smooth out the transition between the panels if there is a slight offset in their assembly. Expect to run a 3 - 4 inch wide strip of filler down all mold joints.

- Shoot for about 3/16 inch panel gaps. They will close up as paint is applied to somewhere around 1/8 to 5/32 inch after paint. Sandpaper wrapped around a paint stick usually works pretty well to sand door/trunk and hood gaps to a uniform gap thickness.

- You will have to flush in all panels - door, hood and trunk to the body. More body filler. You will be very lucky to find any area of the doors, hood or trunk that are actually flush and flow smoothly into the body.

- Body filler is probably fine up to 1/8 inch or so final thickness. A few small areas to 3/16 is no big deal, but anything deeper than that, would probably be best addressed by sanding off the gel coat and laying fiberglass mat and resin in to build it up most of the way, and then finish with filler. Or HSRF as mentioned above can be used - it's tough to sand but probably not a lot worse than new fiberglass mat/resin.

- There will be areas where you likely sand through the factory gel coat. That's not a big deal since you're going to seal the whole body with a Polyester something like Slick Sand or Feather Fill before paint.

- Fiberglass, especially hand laid, is notorious for pinholes. Not a bod idea to go over the body with a stiff wire brush, tapping the entire surface to try to uncover the bulk of them during the filler phase.

- I've painted 2 fiberglass cars. I'm an amateur so I didn't use a power tool on either one for body work. On fiberglass a DA or rotary sander and 60 grit sandpaper can screw up a body contour big time in no time.

- Try to mix up your body filler in the same quantity each time. This way you will learn quickly to judge how long a bead of hardner you need to mix in with it to prevent a batch that kicks off too fast or a batch that never sets up completely (that's a mess). If you have a garage fridge that you can keep your filler in - the cooler temperature may buy you a couple minutes more working time.

- Find something to use for a mixing board for filler. I usually use a layer of heavy aluminum foil to mix on. Then I can throw it away and put another layer on for the next glob of filler I mix.

- Slick Sand is a great, high build primer and it's classified as a sealer although I would still use a sealer prior to starting paint. After applying several coats of Slick Sand and blocking it back down, there isn't anyway to be sure you have the minimum mill thickness in all areas for it to act as an effective sealer.

- Get something - even just a couple cans of black spray primer - to use as a guide coat and fog the whole body before sanding. That will help identify any remaining low or irregular areas to correct in the final sanding.

- If you ever saw anyone paint with lacquer in their driveway or garage - just remember that urethane, polyester and epoxy paints (includes Slick Sand) don't produce dry fall overspray that you can brush off and sweep up. Any overspray will stick to what ever it lands on. So cover everything that you don't want any overspray on for a long, long time.

- Acetone works well to clean up tools.

That's probably enough for now but don't be hesitant to post questions as there is no doubt a lot of do-it-yourself talent on the forum.

Good luck
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Last edited by DanEC; 06-20-2016 at 04:50 PM..
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