How to bleed Tilton balance bar brakes
 

After having little luck bleeding my brakes, I called Tilton and a very helpful person told me the proper technique. This makes perfect sense now that I have heard it and put it into practice.

The balance bar brake pedal actuates individual master cylinders for front / rear brakes. So you must bleed a front and rear brake simultaneously in order for the brake pedal to get a full stroke. This is a three person job. Jack up one side of the car high as practical to elevate the bleed screws higher than the plumbing. Wait 45 minutes for the air to find its way to the bleed screws.

With a pedal pusher and two bleed persons bleed that side of the car until no air is present. He recommended 10 to 12 bleed cycles.

Raise the other side of the car, wait 45 minutes and repeat the procedure.

Bleeding the clutch release requires several short fast pedal pumps before cracking the bleed screw. After several bleed cycles the fluid should be clear and you are done.

I finally have good firm pedals following this procedure.

Great tip Jim,
 

but where the heck were you a couple of years ago when I was desperately trying to successfully bleed my system?? :LOL:

And why doesn't Tilton supply those bleeding instructions along with their system? :confused:

Mike :MECOOL:

Jim thanks for posting the tip,i'am about a week away from bleeding mine.

P.S have you ever seen a complete set of directions or instructions with anything, it shouldn't be that way but seems to be the norm.

I wonder the same thing. The bleeding is so unique to this setup, I would think every pedal set would be supplied with bleeding instructions! I wasted countless hours trying to bleed my brakes using vacuum, and every other technique I could think of.

Thanks for the post, I'm on my 2nd month without my car mainly because I CANT GET THE DAGON BRAKES BLED . I currently am installing a residual valve(if I can get it to stop leaking) and will try your method. Thanks again! Olaf**)

Guys,

Have you tried a vacuum-bleeder? They're not that expensive, and one person can bleed everything. A little less hazardous than a pressure bleeder.

Oh sure Bob....
 

now you want to confuse us with good advice.....;) :3DSMILE:

Mike :MECOOL:

Good info here, i have also heard that you can not get all the air trapped out of the master cylinders unless you "bench bleed" the unit PRIOR to installing them! Great.

I have resorted to removing my calipers and slave cylinders and hanging them as high as possible using steel wire until all the air can rise up.

This is a REAL pain...but I worry about jacking up the car so that all the weight is "angled" on just two tires (1 spindle / 1 axle) not to mention flexing my frame/windshield.

I guess I need to find a vacuum bleeder

...but we all hate soft brakes...

scratch

you might be able to turn that two man job into a one man with those speed bleeders that are advertised in Jeg's and Summit. I have a friend that swears by them.

http://www.russellperformance.com/au...es/page19a.jpg

I have the Tilton balance bar setup and have had good bleeding results just using my normal methods. I like to use the Motive Power Bleeder on the cap of the master cyclinder reservoir. One thing I have started doing differently is that I remove the top caliper mount on the rears since they are at a 45 degree angle. It is a pain in the ass, but aiming them completely vertically does help insure there is not trapped air. I think it is also good to always use a small clear tube on the bleed valve so bubbles are much easier to watch.


Andy

Scratch,

If you could hurt the suspension by jacking the car, what's gonna happen when you round a curve or hit the brakes. You could bounce any properly designed car on any one of it's wheels without damage.

I've had success using a vacuum bleeder, but another method is to disconnect one master cylinder while bleeding the other. This is the technique recommended by Unique in their assembly manual.
Whatever the method, be sure to avoid drawing the reservoir dry, as you'll have to start over.

Good luck,

Posted above are two good alternatives that help the balance bar bleeding problem.

1. Using the one-person bleed screws would be an excellent idea. I was not able to use them on my front brakes because I have Wilwood brakes with miniture bleed screws (two per calpier). But I could open a bleed screw on the back and work the screws manually on the front.

2. Using a pressure bleed system eliminates the whole issue of bleeding the two master cylinders together. Pressure bleeding works on one cylinder at a time and is independent of the balance bar. The pressure system pushes fluid through the system and does not involve stroking the pedal.

I am still fighting my clutch problem and am embarrased about my WRONG advice in my original post about bleeding a hydraulic clutch release. After considerable research on the net, I have learned that bleeding a clutch release is TOTALLY different from bleeding brakes.
1. One does not pump the pedal.
2. Apparently the only way to remove all the air is to reverse bleed the system. On a Porche site it was recommended to use a new (read clean of oil etc) pump oil can to pump fluid from the bleed screw up to the mc resevoir. Of course a pressure bleed device does the same thing, but costs a bit more.
3. I also found a couple of experts who state it is impossible to vaccum bleed a clutch.

I pressure bled my clutch by applying 10 lbs pressure to the resevoir, had fantastic pedal until the car was driven a bit and then it went soft again. Now I am going to try the Porche oil can trick to pressure bleed from the bottom up.

You mean there still may be hope ???
 

WOW, I'm having this problem right now with my car. I was just getting ready to remove my master cylinders and rebuild them because I can't get any pressure in them at all. I have tried to bleed JUST the units themselves while on the car but I can't seem to do that either. I had disconnected my rear brake lines to remove the IRS, that's when my trip to hell began.

Does anyone have any idea how I can get pressure back in my master cylinders ? I have tried to vacume bleed them but for some reason, I just pull air. Would that be caused from having the cap off ? I had it off to keep track of the level in the reservoir but a friend said it could be the cause of my air troubles? Any idea where water would come from ? I seem to have drawn a small amount out of it as well as air and fluid...lol.

Once I get pressure back in the units, do I have to follow these procedures outlined here to get a good pedal again ? Man, sounds pretty damn complicated to me...lol. Anyhow, thanks for any advise you guys/ladies may have.

Cliff

Cliff,

Make sure that your system allows both master cylinder pistons to return all the way. If it doesn't the fill port won't get uncovered.

Cliff,
I am running the Tilton floor mounted set with two mc's. I recently removed the brake pedal and mc's to swap one mc for a smaller one and move the pedal a bit closer to the throttle.

I had the car up on jack stands and the wheels off. I bench bled the mc's and re-installed the pedal and lines. First I let each caliper gravity bleed. This takes some time so just light up a nice cigar and let nature take it's course. Every now and then I would pump the pedal ever so slowly. You could feel the difference as the pedal would start to 'harden up.'

I then set up with my vacuum bleeder and started on the passenger rear. Then the drivers rear. Then the passenger front and then the drivers front. I had to cycle several times.

Took it out and the car stops on a dime.

Now Tilton recommends that you need a min of two people and you should do one side of the car simultaneously and then the other.

I am sure that their method is fine but I am quite satisfied with my procedure; although it may have taken a bit longer.

One thing: On my front brakes (Outlaw 4 piston) I seem to be drawing air in because the fittings, when loosened, tend to be a bit sloppy. I'm only opening them maybe a 1/4 turn but even this amount tends to allow air in. This will not interfere with the bleeding procedure but it gives you a false sense of still having air in the line. The rears are Explorer and they do not draw air.
Also on 4 piston calipers make sure you do both fittings.

Hope this helps,
Roscoe

Bob and Roscoe, thanks for the good advise. I'm running mid size GM calipers in the back and Jag stuff up front. I had good pedal until I took my rear lines off to remove my rear, that was when troubles started. I have had people tell me to replace the mc's and others tell me I needed to rebuild them, neither making any sense because they were fine till I disconnected the lines to the rear. In any case, I'm kinda thinking about buying a pressure bleeder and seeing what kind of trouble I can get into with that....lol. If nothing else, I figure it can't hurt anything right ? I'm not really into this sitting around for an hour and waiting stuff....lol...see what happens when you live semi close to NYC, it makes you impatient...lol. Thanks guys !

Cliff;
Keep the cover on your master cylinder resoirvor. Brake fluid soaks up water like a sponge.
Bill S.

I just went through this process myself on our car with the brakes and the clutch. Here's what worked for me, starting with brand new (ie dry) MC's out of the box:

I mounted the MC's and then bench bled them by making short tubes that routed fluid each MC back to its reservoir. For each MC, after pumping the pedal slowly about 20 times, I filled the reservoir up, disconnected the bench bleeding tube I made and reconnected the brake line to the MC. Watch where the fluid leaks if your car is painted :). Mine's not, so it wasn't a big issue.

Next, I used a vacuum bleeder, as Bob and Roscoe suggested, to pull the fluid through the system. Be patient and work slowly. I started at the pass rear, then the drv rear, pass front and finished up with the drv front, as usual. Repeated this about three times and the pedal is very firm. HOWEVER, it was difficult to tell when all the air was out while bleeding because the bleeders like to pull air around the threads on the bleeders. After removing the bleeders and giving them a light coat of anti-seize, this problem is fixed and the vacuum bleeding method really works great. The anti-seize is a good idea anyway, as they will eventually cause problems otherwise.

As for the clutch, I couldn't get any fluid to pump out of the MC until I pumped the pedal quite quickly a number of times. Later I read this is the way to begin bleeding a clutch. Once the fluid begins to exit the MC (assuming the line and slave are below the MC), the clutch will gravity bleed itself very well. I finished up with the vacuum bleeder because I was impatient and everything took a little over an hour.

And as always, watch the level of the fluid in the MC's or you'll have to start over ;). Also, be sure to check for leaks once you begin checking the pedal...

Mike

Mike
 

Thanks for the advise, it's much appreciated. I'm waiting on two rebuild kits for my MC's as we speak. Once they arrive, I plan to rebuild my units and then start over from scratch. I kinda planned on doing it just as you outlined it but the anti seize is a great idea as you're right, a lot of air does get pulled from the bleeds. Thanks again and good luck on your project.

Cliff

Thanks Cliff. Yeah, go with the anti-sieze and it will work like a champ. Bench bleed the masters by pumping each one about 15 or 20 times and then reattach the real brake lines and you should be in good shape. Let us know how it turns out!

Mike

Well gentlemen I have been working on my brakes for some time now. I have been using a vaccum bleeder and I did notice the air also so I will try the anti-sieze. I just cant get the pedal firm unless I pump up the system. On an earlier post I stated that I changed over the rear drums to disk brakes (using caddy calipers). I then changed the rear master cylinder from a 3/4 to 7/8 unit and proceded to bleeding it again. Yesterday I bled it for the millionth time to no avail. I did however notice that when I pump up the brakes say 5 or 6 times and hold the pedal firm it very slowly drops. I rechecked all my lines and didnt find any leaking. I would expect any leaks in the lines should be obvious when the system is presurized. I didnt bench bleed my new MC and mine is a #@*&# to install. What do you brake pro's think? Olaf :CRY: