texas title issues revisited

[paul cass]

Hey guys
Well here we go again with me trying to change plates on my FIA. Some of you may remember that I had problems back in the 90's when I first tried to register my Cobra. I thought I had it resolved back then. This past summer I decided that I wanted to change from my presonalized plates back to antique. Long story short this process has been a disaster. I'm still trying to get registration and plates. At first I was told that the Cobra Replica could not be registered as a 1965. I was told to change it to Custom. Reluctantly I agreed. I ended up making 5 trips to the Courthouse. And still no plates. When I applied for the Custom plates the state said that I had to change my titile. OK. Then I was told that I had to have the car re inspected. OK. The form I was given was "Registration and Title Bulletin #004-12". It states that the car has to be inspected by an "ASE Certified Mechanic". I was told to download the inspection form. I spent one whole day trying to find as ASE Mechanic to inspect my Cobra. None of the shops had a certified mechanic doing inspections. Finally, in frustration, I contacted a friend of mine at the local Ford dealership to see if he could help out. Told me to bring it in the next day and he would have one of his ASE Mechanics do the inspection. I did and went back to the courthouse and turned in the "new" paperwork. A couple of weeks later I again was contacted by the DMV in Austin to say that they couldn't find the inspection form. Could I send them my copy. Told them that I didn't get a copy form the courthouse but that I did have the receipt for the inspection. He said to send a copy of the receipt and that would suffice. A couple of weeks later I get a call that they found the inpection form and that it was not done by an "ASE Master Tech". I'm confused and ask what a "Master Tech" is. I then ask why the form I was given, #004-12, states ASE Certified and not Master. If I did what the form asks then haven't I met the requirements for registration. Now this arguement has gone back and forth since October. According to the DMV in Austin it doesn't make any difference what that document says, you have to go by the inspection document which does say Master on it. I also asked why I couldn't have the car classified as an antique since in 96 I did everything required to meet the standards for Antique classification. They state that a mistake was made back then and that my Cobra should never have been registered as a 65. My recollection back then was that basically you turned in the title of the vehicle for the year you wanted the car to represent and the engine number. There may have been other things needed, i don't remember now. So I turned in the title for a 1965 Mustang and supplied the number of the 65 289. Now these guys are saying that you can't do that. Of course they now tell me that all I need to do, of course I heard this before, is to find an ASE Master Tech to inspect the Cobra and then they will give me the Custom Plates. Sounds easy but besides the principal of the matter, there is only one Master Tech in Corpus Christi listed. And if he is no longer in business then I would have to go to San Antonio. Seems to me that I have more than met the requirements for keeping the Cobra registered as an Antique or at the least by following the directions of "their" document I did get the Cobra inspected. I did contact SEMA and they agreed that their is a lot of confusion from the DMV on registering Replicas and Street Rods in Texas. But, based on what I've been through then any replica or street rod that is registered from this point on will have to go the "Custom" route. And to add to my anger and frustration was when a friend of mine recently bought a Cobra replica at auction with no paperwork. He went to a neighboring courthouse and they registered it as a 1965 and gave him antique plates!! I hate to involve an attorney in this mess, but does anyone have connections to someone that can help to resolve this matter. I really would like to keep it as an Antique. Good luck AJ on your registration. Looking forward to the Spring Meet in March.
Paul

[madmaxx]

WOW!!!!! buy one already titled.

[Z-linkCobra]

Paul,


You say a buddy of yours bought a cobra at an auction with no paperwork. What do you mean by no paperwork. Was the car previously titled and he needed to file for a lost title using the bill of sale from the auction? Im trying to get my cobra titled and they wont issue me a title because its a home built.

The law changed in oct 2013 to where they wont issue a title to a vehicle that was not manufactured by a vehicle manufacturer. There is a proposal in place to ammend that law in april or may of this year. It will be a road worthiness inspction program and if it passes that then they will issue me a title. Thats the info i got from the DMV and austin.

Gene

[paul cass]

Hi Gene
Since I posted this post earlier today I have gotten two calls from the DMV in Austin. I had also emailed the director of the DMV last week. No resolution so for. Still don't see how leagally if I did what was asked of me from the DMV's own document of how to register a car I can't complete the process. In defense of the DMV, most if not all of the problems in registration of cars starts with the local court houses. As to the guy getting the Antique plates, I don't know the exact details, but I think that he had only the bill of sale, and whatever may have come with it, from the auction house. This court house he used is known for being very easy to register a car. Most of the current registration rules went into effect in 2011. However I'm not sure how many of the governing bodies are current on proper registration. As to being built by a manufacture or home built it doesn't make any difference. Download the Registration and Title Bulletin # 004-12 and it tells you step by step how to register your Cobra. However, you will need to have an ASE Master Tech do the 10 point inspection. Be sure he is a Master Tech.

[twobjshelbys]

Keep the old plates. One of th e reasons I sold my cobra was the potential hassle of moving to another state

[SSSammy]

Here is the reference Paul is talking about:

TxDMV - 004-12 "Custom Vehicle" and "Street Rod" Program

I have been looking the Texas HB 890 (SEMA) changes over and this bulletin is the most definitive thing out there. There are two attachments that are important for you to download also. You must read the attachments carefully to filter for the case that applies to you. It is confusing.

First, you either apply for a new title, or correct your existing TX title, to reflect the vehicle year and make you are a REPLICA of. You will be issued a title with the word "REPLICA" in the comment block.

Second, you apply for a "Custom Vehicle" registration as a "1965 Ford Cobra" or whatever. You will get new "Custom Vehicle" plates. Then you will no longer need to go for an annual inspection sticker. You can do all this in one visit, if you got the ASE Master Tech to fill out the required form that Paul refers to, and you have the other evidence they call for.

The "Assembled Vehicle" year of manufacture process formerly available to replica builders has not gone away completely, and not all the regulations scattered throughout TXDOT are consistent. So if you have obtained a title and registration that way (or any other way), I'd try not to change anything till it's time to buy or sell. YMMV.

IMHO, the anecdotes people have posted in this forum about how they titled their replica Cobra as an original 1965 or 1966 Ford are symptoms of the inconsistency in how the counties apply the regulations. There is no manual for that, so good luck if you choose that route

Sam

[FuzzyDiceRide]

Sammy that was very helpful and thanks , I am currently getting ready to get my Hurricane ready for title and registration . The lady at the title office was very helpful
so much she grabbed my paperwork and saw my paid in full receipt for a factory
built car ,plus I have to give my motor number and they want a copy of that !
daaaang ..........Lookes like she saw about 36K in receipts at .0625 % . but honestly
I probably ........uh shhhh lol . But I'm saving up my bucks to pay the taxes .
So I am guessing I will register the car as a 2008 Hurricane 427 SC roadster .
I also don't want custom plates . I was thinking this though : FAK*SNK or COB*RAH
nothing too kankster though ........TOO*BAD.........anyways it's already been done
I am about 20 years too late . My car is blue and white and got bumpers and the
general 1965 Cobra BAD*A$$ I don't want a Vette look .......Sammy I think I met
you a few years ago at Hallet , I also recently was visited by a fellow Hurricane
owner and you Dallas guys have been GREAT !! ........thanks hope to drive over soon.
Mike

[SSSammy]

Mike,
Congrats on the new Hurricane! I'm looking forward to seeing it on the road. A couple tips .. you don't admit to having a factory built replica. You have purchased a chassis, engine, and other bits separately and "assembled" them into a replica, or paid for it to be done. There should be separate receipts from Hurricane for the chassis and the job of assembling it, if that was how it was done. Most chassis manufacturers have another "dba" name for that purpose. It looks to me like you will have a 2008 ASVE (assembled vehicle) REPLICA 65 Ford when it all settles out. That is how mine is titled.

The title people in my county told me that on an owner built assembled vehicle, the assumption is that sales taxes were paid on the individual components. So no tax due on that stuff. They really didn't examine the receipts, and didn't care to get that deep. Other folks who have posted here over the years have reported both ways, taxed and not taxed. But it's worth bringing up if they try to tax you. I paid no sales tax at all.

Sam

[Z-linkCobra]

Initial Application for Texas Title
If the customer is making initial application for title, the following must be submitted to title the replica vehicle:

■Ownership documents for each major component part (frame, motor and body)■Form VTR-61, Rebuilt Vehicle Statement
■Verification of the serial number or VIN of each major component part (frame, motor and body). Acceptable verifications include pencil tracing or Form VTR-68-A.

Paul, I think your confused as to what my problem is. On the bulletin it says the above for the initial titling process. I dont have numbers on the frame or body. There in lies the problem. They specificly told me that its a home built car and they wont issue me a title. Registering the car is one thing...I gotta get a title first.

No doubt there is a major lack of communication between the DMV and courthouse and TXDOT. Hopefully something will get resolved with the new proposal in april or may.

Gene

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by SSSammy

Most chassis manufacturers have another "dba" name for that purpose.

I would dispute "most" manufacturers doing this. Some do as well as some dealers, but don't count on that protecting you. California for example has recently refused registration and title to some "turn key" cars that were sold and completed by entities that were not "arms length" companies. It is easy for the DMV to look up business registrations and find that the registered owners and addresses are the same! A car done in that manor is defined under Federal law as a "vehicle" produced by a "manufacturer" and therefor subject to all standards and rules.

Now if a chassis supplier has an "affiliated" company they recommend, said company in different location with different ownership, that is OK. We have a couple of installers we use and recommend but they have no ties to us other than being friends and servicing people we refer to them.

Playing by the rules does not guarantee that you will not have problems with registration, but NOT going by the rules WILL guarantee the possiblity of it coming back and biting your butt.

[SSSammy]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

I would dispute "most" manufacturers doing this. Some do as well as some dealers, but don't count on that protecting you. California for example has recently refused registration and title to some "turn key" cars that were sold and completed by entities that were not "arms length" companies. It is easy for the DMV to look up business registrations and find that the registered owners and addresses are the same! A car done in that manor is defined under Federal law as a "vehicle" produced by a "manufacturer" and therefor subject to all standards and rules.

Now if a chassis supplier has an "affiliated" company they recommend, said company in different location with different ownership, that is OK. We have a couple of installers we use and recommend but they have no ties to us other than being friends and servicing people we refer to them.

Playing by the rules does not guarantee that you will not have problems with registration, but NOT going by the rules WILL guarantee the possiblity of it coming back and biting your butt.

Thanks, Rick. A much more accurate statement from someone who knows!

Sam

[FuzzyDiceRide]

My car was a Turnkey minus engine and trans . I am going to play by the rules of my
local county (which are State of Texas rules) My name is on my Certificate of Origin as
I paid for my car when it was shipped to Texas . To complicate things Hurricane Inc.
went bust right after my car was delivered and was eventually bought out by another
company ..........I hope that no no bearing on my getting issued a title for a composite
built vehicle .....my Cert of Origin reads "1965 Hurricane 427 Roadster " series or
model 427 S/C make : Hurricane year : 2008 ..........So I am going to follow the rules
of the nice lady I met and I can't get out of paying the taxes cause I told the truth ? Better in trouble for telling the truth imo when it comes to dealing with govt. local/st./fed
Call me a sheeple I just want my car on the road , I called around and founf me a AES certified mechanic to do the safety check .......no where in my paperwork does the word
Cobra appear by the way ........I will report what it is going to take me to get my car
registered and licensed .........son of a &%#@ lol.....it all good Mike

[Z-linkCobra]

Fuzzy,

With your COM your should have no problem getting a title. THe way TxDOT explained to me was if I would have had a COM they could issue me a title no problem. As for registration that I am curious to find out about. Now I have to say that when I finaly get around to registering my car im gonna ***** about the taxes. I paid sales tax on 90% of the items I used to build my car. Paid it at 8.25% instead of the 6.25% on cars.

Please keep me posted on your progress.

[FuzzyDiceRide]

Z-Link , Yes the taxes ! Just like my parts bought in Texas paid .0825 on all of them too.
I would think the state would allow you to deduct parts bought with sales tax paid ? Ever
since I bought my car several years ago people would say "registration" will be a hurdle.
But yes to your statement my COM will make things easier for sure , It's just my bloodline to complain about taxes ..........I will keep you posted and hopefully we can
relay our experiences :-)...............Mike

Paul I don't mean to steal your thread but I needed some encouragement , thank you for bringing this topic up for us

[madmaxx]

Sigh!

[RC3291]

I know this is an old post. The Texas DMV just added an assembled vehicle manual to their website on the forms page. It outlines what must be done to title and register an assembled vehicle. It is broken down into specific vehicle classes ie kit cars, motorcycles, rebuilt vehicles,etc and what they are. They must have gotten tired of all the screwed up paperwork coming from all the different regional offices. Really makes it simpler to understand for all.

[paul cass]

That may or may not be true as to making things easier to register. In the next few days I plan to post round 2 on my registration issue. It is very possible that this update to their web site is because of my actions with the DMV over the past several months.

[RC3291]

Hope it helps with your problem and makes my life simpler too. Check it out before you go down to register it.

[Z-linkCobra]

I called TxDOT earlier this week and inquired about an inspection program for "homebuilt" vehicles. The lady was pleasant and even put me on hold while she discussed it with two different supervisors. The answer remains the same....still no way for me to title my cobra at this point. She told me she wasn't aware of anything on the books. So I asked her one more time is there anyway for me to title a homebuilt car?...answer was no. That's my progress to this point.

[RC3291]

What DMV office are you using so no one else goes there? Perhaps the key word here is "assembled" and not "homebuilt". You also want to title it as an assembled vehicle with custom plates.Was the frame truely homebuilt or was it manufactured by a kit manufacturer? If it was manufactured then a receipt/invoice (proof of ownership) and form VTR-63 component bill of sale for the frame, motor, and body are needed. VTR-68-A "application for assigned or reassigned number"and proof of ownership can get an assigned number that will need to be stamped on the component(s) per section 15 of the assembled vehicle manual. There is a fee for this.Pictures and other documentation (VTR-852 ASE inspection, VTR-68-N) are necessary but that should get you over the hump you are against. If it was actaully homebuilt you may be toast. Check the new manual out, the first couple of sections, section 4 and in your case section 15 might help. It is a lot better than the old 12-104 faq IMO. I can't get the link to the PDF but go to TXDMV.gov/motorists and on the lower right is a link to it.