Need Oil?

[jetenginedoctor]

Originally Posted by barabar

It is about the zink content in oil. There is only about 4 brands of oil out there that fit the bill. Delo 400 15-40 is the best for the money. If you are runing solids and triple valve springs, after break in check the bottom of the lifter to the cam, if it shows any where (that is where the rubber meets the road) you need to change them and up your zink.
Yes synthetic may give you more viscosity at higher heat( 300+) but if you are runing that hot you have other problems.
AF Morrow

Actually, this isn't entirely true.

The API SJ specification did require many oil companies to greatly change the formulation of their oils to reduce the amount of phosphorus because of the concerns of the automobile manufacturers regarding the possibility of phosphorus poisoning the catalytic converters. The makers of petroleum based motor oils had to make more drastic formulation changes than the makers of synthetic oils as synthetic oils rely less on ZDP or ZDDP and other additives to provide the level of wear protection necessary to prevent damage to sliding surfaces within the engine such as flat tappet valve train components.

There is much more to the benefits of synthetic lubricants than being more viscocity stable, better shear resistance, and volitility than refined petroleum based lubricants. Synthetic oils have a tremendously unfair advantage over refined petroleum oils, and the issues discussed here are just the start. Though I'm replacing all the lubricants both in my shop and in my garage at home with Amsoil lubricants, there's nothing at all wrong with the Mobil 1 that I've offered here, and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to run it in ANY engine. In fact, the only reason I haven't already used this oil is because none of my vehicles require an oil this heavy. I build my engines with clearances suitable for SAE-30 oils, and my Cummins diesel runs Amsoil 10w-40 with 25,000 mile drain intervals. You can't do that with Mobil 1, or I'd just run it in the truck.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack. I'll have more oil up for sale here shortly.

BK

[CSX 4027]

Just use Valvoline Race only non street legal. It's all you need. Change it after every 500 miles and you're good to go.
NOT THEIR VRI

[cobraduke]

jetenginedoctor,
And my offer to buy the Mobile1 (12 for $50) at the March meet?

[jetenginedoctor]

Originally Posted by cobraduke

jetenginedoctor,
And my offer to buy the Mobile1 (12 for $50) at the March meet?

If I still have it by then, you've got yourself a deal. I've got a couple local people who SAY they want it and will come get it this week. We'll see what they do.

BK

[jetenginedoctor]

Originally Posted by CSX 4027

Just use Valvoline Race only non street legal. It's all you need. Change it after every 500 miles and you're good to go.
NOT THEIR VRI

The problem with racing oils is that they are typically not a good choice for a car that sits in storage for any length of time. It's also a poor choice of oil for anyone who's not actually RACING their car. Rodding around a little here and there on the street does NOT constitute a need for racing oil, and it does NOT improve engine performance to use it.

Changing oil every 500 street miles is rediculous. I drive my fun car AT LEAST that far every weekend. Are you saying that after 500 miles, all the goodie is used up? Does that mean I'd have to go through 8 quarts of oil and a $13 oil filter every weekend if I use Valvoline Race oil? If an oil loses it's ability to protect a car's engine after 500 miles of street driving, it isn't worth the bottle it ships in.

BK

[CSX 4027]

A few issues here..
I have spent lots of time on this issue. My partner has been building race engines for 16 years. We have personally done lots of experimenting, testing and researching oils as well talk to the top tech guys at the various companies.
First we need oils that can go one weekend for our dirt track guys that run big and small blocks and are limited to using only flat tappet. The Valvoline is easy to get and cheap but the best part is that it has proved to be the best in this scenario.
Second we need oils for the vintage guys. Cobra's, Corvettes, Jaguars etc that also have flat tappet. After much conversation and susequent testing, we found that most feel that changing their oil often is far less troublesome and costly than pulling their motor and paying for a rebuild.
The Valvoline Race oil will begin to break down after 500 miles due to the lack of stabilizers so as a precaution, Valvoline suggests that limit. But again, that's for racing. On the street I am sure it is fine for longer but again, cheap insurance.
When you are at a bar and you order a Scotch and Soda expecting it to taste a certain way, there is only so much room in the glass for the components Scotch, Soda and Ice. A quart of oil is the same. You can't have everything. A friend used to have a sign. Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick 2. You can't have it all.
The race oils lack detergents and stabilizers but the benefit of the extra additives far outweigh the length they will last given the use in a scrub, flat tappet.
Also, if you use a strong detergent modern oil in an older rebuilt flat tappet now you have other problems. All those years of deposits in the pan and all over the motor will kick loose. The low detergent race oil will not disturb the sludge. Much better.
Also you mentioned sitting in the car being stored.
If you had 100 miles on the race oil and stored the car for 6 months, you could still go another 400 miles. The oil only breaks down when you use it. But, for the heck of it, I take every car that has been sitting, take it out to get everything warm, drain it and replace all fluids anyway.
Back to cheap insurance.

[jetenginedoctor]

I really don't want to argue with you Steve, but you're way off the mark. There is no reason whatsoever for a guy driving a flat tappet ANYTHING on the street to use a race oil and change it every 500 miles.

PERIOD.

I don't know what you or your people are using for filters, what you're using for fuel, or what state of tune these engines are in, but even a flat tappet engine with heavy valve springs should be able to get a lot more than 500 miles between oil changes. Maybe some people think it's macho to use race oil and change it every weekend. Still others see it as wastefull and completely unnecessary. Maybe if you're using a door screen for a filter and you're running some ungodly rich AFR, 500 mile changes make sense. But come on, a car running like that would be fouling plugs and tearing up a lot more than just camshafts.

Anyway, I'm not interested in what your friend knows. I'm more interested in what YOU know. If you've got some technical insight that goes beyond "hey, my friend has been building race engines for 16 years, and he said so. . . ," I'd love to hear it!

BK