Tko600 Warning!!!!

[lineslinger]

An unbiased opinion from a factory rep?

How often is he/she going to rule against the company that pays their salary?

Stories have shifted since this thread was originaly posted and I must say so has my opinion about the gentleman who posted it. What we were told and what actually ocourred seem to vary quite a bit.
If Keisler would have snapped up that gear box and said "well' take care of it" I have to believe that would have had a much more positive impact on future biz, and industry perception than the cluster%$#@ and finger pointing taking place now.
For someone still considering which gearbox to buy and where to buy it from I gotta tell you I would be seeking a company with more a positive stance/attitude than what is being presented here by Keisler even though I believe they are being reasonable in their approach.
The BIG business "picture" says "We will fix the damn thing and tell your pals". The cost of said repair is a spit in the ocean compared to the potential new business to be generated.
The customer was BS-ing you??? So what, chances are anyone that know and hangs with the guy are going to know about him too and they (Keisler) still fixed his gearbox? "Hmmmm, maybe I oughta give them a look" Positive customer relations is one of the cheapest and most effective ways to be perceived as the "go to guys".
A lot cheaper than say a 30 second radio spot, a magazine ad, a billboard, a web popup, etc. etc.
And look where the adverserial stance has them now.

Win the battle and lose the war.

[Fordfan69]

Richard,

1: My whole problem with the outcome has been twofold:
As I mentioned, the salesrep that placed my order was informed It would be racing it ocassionally - Nothing was said to me about voiding warranty.

2: The explanation for the "abuse" that was given to me by you and the Plant Manager shifted from "you missed the shift or the gear was halfway in", then changed to " the clutch you are using is way too aggressive and shocked the tranny". When I reminded you guys that your company was the one that recommended the clutch from the beginning and sold it to me, it then went back to "the gear being halfway in".

That's why I feel keisler was "grasping" at a reason to pin it on me and not search into/have Tremec search into whether there are a bad batch of gears(maybe mine is the only one) out there(if that indeed is the case)

I told you before, I am not asking for anything I don't truly and honestly feel is unjust. I was never really given a good technical explanation when I asked many times.

Also, You guys mill the tailshaft as well as a small portion of the top shift plate. You must dissassemble the tailshaft and toplate to do that. You then have to reassemble it. That is why Tremec is saying they can't cover it. You are an authorized distributor, but why don't they feel comfortable enough in you work to cover it. They will cover the transmission if it is raced at the track. Just look at the ad the have. If they stand behind their transmission, why can't you?

Greg.

[keislerNick]

Also, You guys mill the tailshaft as well as a small portion of the top shift plate. You must dissassemble the tailshaft and toplate to do that. You then have to reassemble it. That is why Tremec is saying they can't cover it. You are an authorized distributor, but why don't they feel comfortable enough in you work to cover it. They will cover the transmission if it is raced at the track. Just look at the ad the have. If they stand behind their transmission, why can't you?

Greg.[/quote]

Who ever you talked to at tremec has obviously misinturpreted the warranty. As all transmissions we do are still under warranty by tremec taking the tailhousing and topplate off has no affect on the internal gear set and is still under warranty from tremec. We do cover many transmissions and tremec sends us alot of customers to us to warranty for them direct. Also if you call the tech line and tell them you broke your trans drag racing they do not cover that I am sorry if they mislead you but that doesnt happen.

[WarrenG]

A few years ago Vandersteen, a high end speaker manufacturer in CA, received a warranty repair request from one of their So. Cal dealers. Their customer reported that his speakers "melted down" when he was listening to them at normal levels in his home. Upon examination of the speaker drivers, Vandersteen said hold, there is no way this happened during "normal" listening levels.

Turns out the customer had the system cranked up loud enough to be heard in the yard (from his living room) while he was running the lawn mower. Definately not what is considered normal listening levels by anybody's definition in the hobby, manufacturer or user. The drivers for these particular speakers cost considerably more than the $430 quoted for the parts damaged in this transmission.

Vandersteen, who has always been known for great customer service, still replaced the drivers at no charge for the customer and gained an even greater reputation for excellent customer service in the industry.

Not going to take sides here, I can certainly identify with both. It does seem to me that both Keisler and Tremec could have gained alot by writing off the cost of repairs to "purchasing" of additional "goodwill."

That said alot of the repetitive rhetoric used in some of the posts (both sides) gets pretty tiresome. Some people (including a certain electronics dealer) obviously have way too much time on their hands.

[Velox]

I've been reading threads on CC for a long time and only recently joined. This thread was initially great popcorn entertainment, with an extra dose of "you've gotta be kidding" when I read fordfan's comments. What to me was an obvious new poster only here to bash a vendor and put the internet HEX on the people he wanted money from generated an amazing quantity of bad-bad Keisler and bad-bad Tremec verbiage. As the thread has gone on I finished my popcorn and now am mostly discouraged with many of the responses. I've read a few comments that echo my concerns - when did it become OK to lie and cheat and expect others to be responsible for whatever goes wrong? I've had Tremecs, several years ago I bought a kit from Keisler, last week I bought a TKO600 from jimiG. I've never had a problem, and for sure if I blew one up racing I wouldn't dream of trying to scam someone else to pay for it. You race it, you own it. What part of that is not understood? Sure the "make it go away" philosophy is the quick cure to avoid attention. I'm glad not everyone looks the other way when people deceive, lie and cheat. This case here is amazing, a totally dishonest customer was still offered free labor and a deal on parts, and still goes out to light up the forums with his rants on Keisler and Tremec. Well that's just my opinion not even 2c worth, I'm off to get some more popcorn.

[Burgs]

Tremec, reach into the rack of gears and give one away. What's the BFD?

It was misrepresented what was going on at the time it broke, so it's the principal of the thing? Get over it! It happens all the time, in all industries, and it is your decision how to deal with it. Either call your customer a liar to his face, and tell him to pound salt, (or is it sand?), or call him a liar amongst your selves, take care of the problem, and move on. The dealer offered the labor at N/C, and I commend Keisler for that! The manufacturer has dug in their heals, and that is their decision.

Ford Fan, IMO, buy the gear and take the labor,... as Richard said, get that Charger back on the road!

[rj8806]

Originally Posted by Fordfan69

Richard,

1: My whole problem with the outcome has been twofold:
As I mentioned, the salesrep that placed my order was informed It would be racing it ocassionally - Nothing was said to me about voiding warranty.

2: The explanation for the "abuse" that was given to me by you and the Plant Manager shifted from "you missed the shift or the gear was halfway in", then changed to " the clutch you are using is way too aggressive and shocked the tranny". When I reminded you guys that your company was the one that recommended the clutch from the beginning and sold it to me, it then went back to "the gear being halfway in".

That's why I feel keisler was "grasping" at a reason to pin it on me and not search into/have Tremec search into whether there are a bad batch of gears(maybe mine is the only one) out there(if that indeed is the case)

I told you before, I am not asking for anything I don't truly and honestly feel is unjust. I was never really given a good technical explanation when I asked many times.

Also, You guys mill the tailshaft as well as a small portion of the top shift plate. You must dissassemble the tailshaft and toplate to do that. You then have to reassemble it. That is why Tremec is saying they can't cover it. You are an authorized distributor, but why don't they feel comfortable enough in you work to cover it. They will cover the transmission if it is raced at the track. Just look at the ad the have. If they stand behind their transmission, why can't you?

Greg.

I beleive the statement about the clutch being way too aggressive started in either this thread or one of the other 2 foums you signed on to. We sell that particular clutch all day long and no one else has called with the same compaint.
As for "grasping" for a reason.... The evidence speaks for itself. The gear was sheared off in the front of the gear. If there was a defect in the material, the outcome would have been different.
Tremec saying that they wouldn't warranty the transmission is a mis-understanding on your part. I spoke at great length to the rep yesterday about this statement and that is simply not true. They will not warranty any of OUR parts, but the internals are not affected by that statement. We are an authorized repair center. In fact, Tremec has referred several guys who were not our customer, to send their tranny to us for warranty repair. Tremec only offers a 3 month warranty on the tranny where we double that to 6 months.
This is a mute point anyway as Tremec has inspected it too and came to the same conclusion we did, abuse. They will not warranty it for that reason.
We do seperate the tailhousing from the main case and machine it(the tailhousing). The way I read your statement about "us re-assembling" the tranny, to mean that we removed the internals for our machining process and then re-assemble it. My mistake. I mis-understood.
Once again, we are willing to eat the labor and you pay wholesale price for the parts needed. That is the only answer you are going to get so take the advice given to you by many on this forum(and the other 2) and let's get this behind us. Your Charger is meant to be driven and our kit is meant for you to enjoy driving it more so fix it and go enjoy it.
Richard
Tech Support
Keisler Engineering

[Rebel1]

Originally Posted by lineslinger

An unbiased opinion from a factory rep?

How often is he/she going to rule against the company that pays their salary?

Stories have shifted since this thread was originaly posted and I must say so has my opinion about the gentleman who posted it. What we were told and what actually ocourred seem to vary quite a bit.
If Keisler would have snapped up that gear box and said "well' take care of it" I have to believe that would have had a much more positive impact on future biz, and industry perception than the cluster%$#@ and finger pointing taking place now.
For someone still considering which gearbox to buy and where to buy it from I gotta tell you I would be seeking a company with more a positive stance/attitude than what is being presented here by Keisler even though I believe they are being reasonable in their approach.
The BIG business "picture" says "We will fix the damn thing and tell your pals". The cost of said repair is a spit in the ocean compared to the potential new business to be generated.
The customer was BS-ing you??? So what, chances are anyone that know and hangs with the guy are going to know about him too and they (Keisler) still fixed his gearbox? "Hmmmm, maybe I oughta give them a look" Positive customer relations is one of the cheapest and most effective ways to be perceived as the "go to guys".
A lot cheaper than say a 30 second radio spot, a magazine ad, a billboard, a web popup, etc. etc.
And look where the adverserial stance has them now.

Win the battle and lose the war.

Gotta disagree with you.....This fordfan came into this court of public opinion with a "TK600 Warning!!!" thread. His intentions were clear.

He FORCED a trader to take a defensive stance even after that trader had offered a reasonable reconciliation.

Maybe it is a difference in cultures or maybe a difference in consumer laws but here in Australia at the time of the offer to repair, fordfan had a choice to accept and get the box repaired quickly but still be able to pursue what he clearly feels is an injustice.

After the repair he could have then sent the gear to Tremec for a second inspection, seek all the expert opinions he wants , come in here and ask how many 3rd gears have broken and then go seek resolution in a consumer court with all the evidence he had assembled . Here in Australia consumer courts are free and chaired by an independent referee.

If he had won his case he would have got his money back....only then has he justification to badmouth the trader and manufacturer in a public forum.

This notion about traders having to bow down to lying consumers is just wrong. The Company trading terms were advertised before the transaction. If fordfan didn't like them he could have purchased elsewhere.

That's my rant for the day

[jdog]

This could have been a great PR opportunuty for the seller/manufacturer. What do you think 'their' cost was for this one trans?

By the sellers own figures, they have 4000 on the road. What could their loss be on one?

They could have made a poster child out of this guy.

Have you ever been to a casino? You'ed think they wouldn't like big Jackpot winners, right? Wrong! They love them! They make poster's & signs with their "happy' faces. They make it back 10 times over with new vict....er customers!

Even if this guy was scamming them, they could have made it a boone for their immage. You can't buy the those 'happy faces' you earn them! And they will pay you back 10 times over.

I believe even if the seller & manufacturer are right as rain, they lost! And they could have hit the Jackpot.

jdog
P.S. I have a tremec 600 in my car, and written right on my reciept from the seller/installer is says:"If you race it, you own it". I understand what that means!

[keislerNick]

Originally Posted by jdog

This could have been a great PR opportunuty for the seller/manufacturer. What do you think 'their' cost was for this one trans?

By the sellers own figures, they have 4000 on the road. What could their loss be on one?

They could have made a poster child out of this guy.

Have you ever been to a casino? You'ed think they wouldn't like big Jackpot winners, right? Wrong! They love them! They make poster's & signs with their "happy' faces. They make it back 10 times over with new vict....er customers!

Even if this guy was scamming them, they could have made it a boone for their immage. You can't buy the those 'happy faces' you earn them! And they will pay you back 10 times over.

I believe even if the seller & manufacturer are right as rain, they lost! And they could have hit the Jackpot.

jdog
P.S. I have a tremec 600 in my car, and written right on my reciept from the seller/installer is says:"If you race it, you own it". I understand what that means!

Jdog the thing is we did make an offer on getting this situation resolved at a small cost. Second thing if we had made a poster child of him no one would ever hear from him. I love forums and post on many the thing is you very rarely see a praise thread for a company if your car is running good. Nor do you see a mopar guy posting about his love for a company on a cobra forum. I would enjoy myself and drive it.

[Excaliber]

Good point Jdog.
Yet another entertaining thread brought to you by Club Cobra!

I understand where Fordfan69 is coming from with the mixed up 'reports' on what happened. That doesn't make it right, but man, I can understand the delimna.

I blew up a rental car engine once, the darn oil drain plug unscrewed itself and fell out! Lost all the engine oil, hey not MY fault! But, well, I was on a rode expressly forbidden to be on by the rental contract. What to do???? I managed to get the car to a 'safe' place (amazing how far you can drive without oil) and called them from there.

"Hello? Is this the rental car place? My car won't go, can you send someone to make it go?"

Restricted PAVED roads? How stupid is THAT!

[trularin]

I think lineslinger makes a good point.

"Would any of you blokes buy a transmission from these buggers after this thread?"

First they charged twice what anyone, even Tremec would change for the TKO600.

Second they have the most ridicules warranty I have ever heard of for a performance transmission.

Third, there is obviously some difference of opinion between the guy who purchased it and the people selling it. And, it's not like they didn't make their money off the deal.

When asked, Tremec stated:

1. It is a performance transmission.
2. there is a 90 day unlimited warranty.
3. we know it will be raced.

I don't get that warm fuzzy feeling about these guys or the person who posted this "entertaining thread brought to you by Club Cobra!".

I read back pedaling in the words written by both.

AND, if this had grenaded as the shop had said, why aren't the lead in teeth where the syncro aligns the shift collar sheared off?

Got to love CC, only the best in live entertainment.

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by trularin

I think lineslinger makes a good point.

"Would any of you blokes buy a transmission from these buggers after this thread?"

First they charged twice what anyone, even Tremec would change for the TKO600.

Second they have the most ridicules warranty I have ever heard of for a performance transmission.

Third, there is obviously some difference of opinion between the guy who purchased it and the people selling it. And, it's not like they didn't make their money off the deal.

When asked, Tremec stated:

1. It is a performance transmission.
2. there is a 90 day unlimited warranty.
3. we know it will be raced.

I don't get that warm fuzzy feeling about these guys or the person who posted this "entertaining thread brought to you by Club Cobra!".

I read back pedaling in the words written by both.

AND, if this had grenaded as the shop had said, why aren't the lead in teeth where the syncro aligns the shift collar sheared off?

Got to love CC, only the best in live entertainment.

Let me help you with a few things here.


Ist of all the trans he bought had been modified to fit into his car properly.

you can't take a stock tremec and put in to his car without modification.

If you had taken the time to investigate what we do you would see this is
a complete kit inluding trans, crossmember , driveshaft all parts needed for the conversion.

you obviously haven't bought any race parts. There warranty isnt that great either.

So you went to our website and read our entire warranty statement.
or are you just reading what you want here.


Alot of you guys said we should of fixed it for good PR. If we would have done that, what do you think the chances are he would of posted anything.


you have to take the %'s chance it's like this, with all the veiw's this post has had along with all the other place's this guy has posted. The percentage of people posting is few. I can tell you from experiance guys still call in and buy most of them think that there are just a bunch of whiners out there.

So some publicity is better than the chance of none.

To those of you who can see our side thanks. The rest of you?

[trularin]

Here is a suggestion, why don't you guys use one user name. You all have the same IP, yet there is like five guys from your shop on CC. Not that we don't mind an increase in members, but you all seem to have nothing better to do than "damage control".

I don't feel this other guy's efforts are at me or member of this Club, but you all are making your efforts clear.



Don,. you got two bags of buttered over there?

[TomV]

If you would like to see another side of the story about whether Tremec does or does not stand behind their product, take a look at this posting about a guy's problem's with his TKO in his FFR. Not only did Tremec send him a new transmission after they couldnt find what was wrong with the old one, they sent him a nice Tremec jacket for being so patient and understanding about things. And no I dont work for Tremec or Keisler, but I do have a TKO 600 in my car with which I have had zero problems.

http://www.ffcobra.com/ubb/ultimateb.../t/079435.html

Take care.

Tom

[Excaliber]

Perhaps I should clarify my position.
I support Keisler, they've offered a fair solution and did so BEFORE this thread even started.
I sympathize with Fordfan69, it's a nightmare at best. It DOES leave me wondering if Tremec has a 3rd gear problem with manufacturing. Probably not, I would STILL buy a Tremec!
This is an entertaining thread, train wrecks are also entertaining.

[easystep]

Wow, I am really surprised at the vehemence people are displaying in this thread, especially when they don't have a dog in this fight.

While, I understand Fordfans wanting something for nothing, if the company's policy is otherwise then so be it. After reading all these rather entertaining posts, I would still consider Keisler and Tremec, in fact I am.

Ron

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by easystep

I would still consider Keisler and Tremec, in fact I am.

Why, If you want a proven "race" transmission, this is the ONLY way to go:

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/


.

[ItBites]

I have been looking for a TKO 600. Keisler was in my prospective supplier file. At this point Keisler is off the list. Not because I side with Fordfan, but just because I hate any hassle. I can't take sides here, since the "facts" are truly only heresay (Keisler says that Tremec said...). I

I can say that just because of the questions this has raised, and the fact that I will not spend a bunch of my effort to determine who is right, I will not pursue Keisler. There are other suppliers out there that I have not (yet?) heard of this type of issue with...

[ByronRACE]

Considering the current rate for shop time, and the number of hours spent nurturing this thread alone, this has got to be the worlds most expensive NON-repair job!

And yes, I do have a lot of free time on my hands...Maui in 4 days, I'm already there.

P.S. I'd still like to know who they think has the burden of proof regarding abuse. Manufacturer or Customer?