Tko600 Warning!!!!

[Ant]

Fordfan69,

Regarding Rockwell hardness, I could be wrong but I think around 57 is par for the course for a road race transmission, and the drag race transmissions are a bit softer in the gears at around 52 rockwell, at least that is the choice from suppliers like Jerico! The softer gears wear out quicker and the harder gears are more prone to loosing teeth compared to the softer gears.

I think Tremec need to look at the design of the TKO-500, 600 series, as other transmissions like Toploaders, Muncies dont have all these problems, plus Tremec make the T56 which is apparently a good trans, which is available with special gear sets for racing by several suppliers. My question is why race with a transmission that is not designed or up to racing and they also state Road race gearset.....? The only selling point is the cruising top gear, and that probably applies more to road users!! BUT there may be a lot of TKO-600's out there that give years of trouble free hard usage.

Another alternative, and pardon me for mentioning Japanese, as I am not a Jap car fan, but a Toyota Supra twin turbo or suchlike transmission would have to be better made and last longer than most, plus stand reasonably high horsepower levels. I wonder what the Jap race 750 + bhp brigade are using in their drift cars etc.

[Don]

Without taking sides in this situation, a few thoughts:

* The Public Affairs/Relations professionals will most always recommend to take charge of the situation by immeadiately ending the discussion on a positive note. Might not be correct in one of the parties eyes, but is there more damage on a long term basis to reputations, future business, etc that could be created ......won the battle but lost the war. Had Senator Kerry decided to immediately end the controversy, would the recent incident gone away rather than become the topic which has filled the newscasts over the past few days. Privately, may not have agreed, but better to move on rather than keeping the story alive.

In business, reviving a hard earned, long term postive reputation is extremely difficult, when a single incident , with or without merit, gets all the press.

* The WSJ had a recent section on " Customer Service " One of the points mentioned is the " experience " in total. not just individual points such as how quickly the phone was answered. From the WSJ:


Traditionally, many businesses have defined customer service with a simple mantra: "The customer is always right." Got a problem? We'll fix it.

But over time, customer service has evolved. Deferential treatment is still part of the relationship, but in an increasingly competitive marketplace, many businesses aren't waiting for their customers to make a complaint or have a query. They're doing their best to figure out what the customer wants and to provide it before any questions or problems arise.

"Customer service can be defined in lots of different ways," says Chris Denove, a vice president at J.D. Power & Associates, the McGraw-Hill Cos. unit that conducts customer-satisfaction surveys. "It's being broadly defined more and more as the voice of the customer."

[jeffko]

You guys can analyze this to death and it does make for some interesting reading, but what happened was a mechanical failure that should not have failed. This transmission was broken while being used exactly what it was built for. Tremec even added the torque rating to the name and promotes their product as having the ability to take brute force and rightfully so. I have over 450 rwt on a TKO and I drive it pretty hard most all the time whether on the track, strip, street because that’s what I built it for. Likewise, most guys in our club have a Tremec without any problems. We have 2 or 3 guys (me being one of them) that have broken axles and half shafts without fazing the Tremecs. This poor guy got a trans with a manufacturing flaw and it failed. As good as a Tremec is do they really think that every trans they make is perfect? Insult to injury this guy got hosed on the price and still these pussies where he bought it will not do the right thing.

My solution….Boycott Keisler and we all demand Tremec repair their failures….even if they think it was some kind of end user abuse, which I strongly believe it was not. Remember, they advertise and we buy their products because they are tough and we have the right to demand service for what we paid for. The next time this happens it could be one of us.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English...tactusform.asp

[keislerNick]

Originally Posted by jeffko

You guys can analyze this to death and it does make for some interesting reading, but what happened was a mechanical failure that should not have failed. This transmission was broken while being used exactly what it was built for. Tremec even added the torque rating to the name and promotes their product as having the ability to take brute force and rightfully so. I have over 450 rwt on a TKO and I drive it pretty hard most all the time whether on the track, strip, street because that’s what I built it for. Likewise, most guys in our club have a Tremec without any problems. We have 2 or 3 guys (me being one of them) that have broken axles and half shafts without fazing the Tremecs. This poor guy got a trans with a manufacturing flaw and it failed. As good as a Tremec is do they really think that every trans they make is perfect? Insult to injury this guy got hosed on the price and still these pussies where he bought it will not do the right thing.

My solution….Boycott Keisler and we all demand Tremec repair their failures….even if they think it was some kind of end user abuse, which I strongly believe it was not. Remember, they advertise and we buy their products because they are tough and we have the right to demand service for what we paid for. The next time this happens it could be one of us.

http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English...tactusform.asp

Being hosed on the price, I am not aware of another company that supplies turn key transmission kit for a mopar. Its a great kit and we worked with Greg to fix his problem. Keisler supplied the counter shaft and the other parts for the transmission. Also a cobra kit car doesnt have any weight behind it, and most of them dont have good traction that does make a huge difference.

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by keislerNick

Being hosed on the price, I am not aware of another company that supplies turn key transmission kit for a mopar. Its a great kit and we worked with Greg to fix his problem. Keisler supplied the counter shaft and the other parts for the transmission. Also a cobra kit car doesnt have any weight behind it, and most of them dont have good traction that does make a huge difference.

Implying, that if it did, we might find ourselves in the same boat as FordFan?

Do Tremec -AND their dealers -really believe they have the only product on the market?

[eschaider]

I just checked my new TKO 4617. The countershaft alignment problem that Greg (Fordfan) has also exists in my new, never used, still in the box untill I opened it TKO.

My transmission appears to have the countershaft shimmed backward towards the rear of the case. The effect of the apparent shimming was to share the total misalignment between second and third gear rather than having third gear absorbing the total misalignment. Come to think of it, the rearward placement of the countershaft will affect every mainshaft gear that meshes with it!

When I bought the transmission the reseller strongly encouraged me to have them 'blueprint' the box before shipping. The cost was just under a hundred bucks. For cheap money I thought what the heck, why not, its just good insurance in case the factory missed something that could come back to haunt me later.

I am now of the opinion the reseller already knew of the problem and in 'blueprinting' was attempting to stack the longevity deck as best as possible by spreading the load reduction across multiple gears, given the Tremec design flaw.

This problem appears to be a Tremec design error. More significantly it defies rational thinking that the folks at minimally Tremec and probably Keisler were unaware of the design error. It is even more troubling that Keisler would misrepresent the cause of failure as a partially engaged third gear resulting from a missed shift.

What each of us, with a TKO 600 TCET4617 appears to have is a transmission with a faulty countershaft design that does not fully engage the tooth face of one or more mainshaft gears. Greg (Fordfan) was aggressive enough in his cry for help and the potential of a broad based foul play that at least one of the websites he posted on (Club Cobra) unraveled the ball of fishing twine.

Keisler is a major disappointment, along with Tremec. It could well be that Tremec advised their dealer network that Tremec would not honor warranties for failed third gear gearsets. The dealers, in this case Keisler, in turn then assigned the cause of failure to the owner with misrepresentations and disingenuous statements because they wouldn't/couldn't carry the expense of warranting Tremec's design error.

Tremec has the real responsibility to both stand good for the repairs and most importantly to produce a countershaft replacement that engages all mainshaft gears correctly. Resellers like Keisler need to be very carefully scrutinized to determine if they deserve our business. Keisler's behavior and deliberate attempts to obfuscate the truth really give reason for pause and reflection.

Ultimately each of us will have to make his own decision. When you do, think about the events that have transpired here, put yourself in Greg's (Fordfan's) place and ask yourself if this is fair treatment and how would you feel if the tables were turned. Remember that if you have a TKO 600 (and probably 500 also) this failure could be just down the road waiting for you!

Ed

[jeffko]

Kudos Ed. Shame on us if we don't make our concerns felt by Tremec. I think they produce some very fine products, but they !$#^%~^ here and need to address the problem.

[RICK LAKE]

Ed if you opened your trans and see the same problem, SEND THE TRANS BACK for a refund. I am not on Keilsers side, like you said they didn't make the trans, they only sell it. Nick I don't care about Mopars as far as on Club Cobra, there maybe 10 hemis or 440's in cobras compared to how many thousands of ford motors, big and small blocks. For anybody that has bought a tremec trans, there is a strong need to have it blueprinted or redone. I don't think $100.00 is going to do anything. If David Kees reads this, ask him how much to blueprint a trans on top of a rebuild? A solid guess would be $300.00-$700.00 plus parts. Guys you need to go after Tremec HARD. I am sure there are other clubs with the same problems. Kielser made good on Fordfan 69. If you hold Kielser at fault for these trans breaking, they will be out of business real fast. There are a couple laws on here, guys who do you go after???I vote for Tremec, Iam sure they know of this problem. Question is what are they doing about it. Rick Lake