Toploader vs TKO 600 Subjective Shift 'Feel' Rankings

[jeffy]

Originally Posted by Cobrabill

No OD type trans has the strength of a Toploader.And there isn't a "internal rail" trans that will shift as smooth as a TL.



What is your "cruising RPM" and at what RPM is your advance all the way in?

You are being "comical" about the "overdrive" comment-right?

Can't remember what 70mph worked out to. My tires will be about 26.5", so you can easily look it up. I don't plan to do long highway "cruises", and I want plenty of revs for the Webers. I don't understand what "advance all the way in" means, so can't respond to that question.

The fourth gear in my setup will have the same gearing at the tires as a 1:1 top gear paired with a 3.77 rear-end, which was a common rear-end in the original competition 289s. As a consequence, my 1:1 5th gear with a 3.08 rear becomes, in effect, an overdrive relative to the original racing setup. Sorry if that concept is confusing for you, but that is how I look at it.

[tkb289]

Patrick ... thanks for the sage advice of choosing wisely, that is crux of the question and as you state, there are a lot of variables. I have the ERA 289 FIA manual and have been poring over the various tables of transmissions & differentials for speeds in different gears and RPMs. The only thing I can't calculate is the 'feel' part of the equation, hence this thread.

One interesting part for me, is all of the choices when putting together a detailed build list ... no wonder these cars are so different! I guess that's part of the fun.

Also ... Thanks again to all ... for the posts above.

- Tim

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Tim;

For comparison purposes, my 65 fastback has a 3.25 rear gear,351-W,350hp or less, certainly no more than that. My Tremec 3550 has the .64 fifth gear, my tires are 15" short tires,about 25.5 inches tall. Cruising the interstae at 75 mph I'm turning about 1900 rpms give or take 50 rpms or so.

As I stated earlier, 1st thru 3rd gear are a lot lower than the toploader ratio and I can "stand on it" thru 3rd gear and the car really hauls the mail. I've run in the 12.90's at the drag strip with the only change from the way it is for daily driving is a set of drag radials on the rear.

For me a day at work is anywhere from 200 to 300 miles, 90% on the highway and I drive my car to work at least once a month,more when the weather is nice, so the 5 speed was a no-brainer for me....

Also, Superformance and I'm sure others have a shifter handle that looks exactly like the factory toploader shifter for the Tremec trans. , I have one on my car. Unless you look under the car, you'd think I have a toploader in it. I got my shifter handle from a Superformance owner, his car came with both shifters and he ended up with a toploader and didn't need the other shifter, bolts directly to the Tremec shifter "stub".

Just depends on what you plan to do with your car and how you plan to drive it most of the time as to what trans. will suit you best. For my use and needs, nothing but a 5 speed would do.

David

[elmariachi]

I have an identical tire/trans setup as Patrick (only I have a 427.) My TKO 600 is new (400 miles) and so I am sure its still getting broken in, but it seems to be less sure of itself during gear changes than a toploader. Its been 15 years since I had a toploader so maybe its just me.

I suspect the .82 5th probably feels like a more natural progression from 4th whereas I can really feel the ratio separation when I drop into the .64 5th. But the ability to super-cruise in 5th with the .64 is a nice feature, even if it does invite the urge to speed like hell. I did the math....my right foot will chicken out before the car does.

[Tony Ripepi]

Good Input From all.

I have had the tremec TKO behind a 427 and the Toplaoder behind a 427 with Both cars having a 3:54 Salisbury rear end and a 460 with a TKO behind it with 3:73 gears I also owned 302 with a T-5 behind it.

I have had the good fortune to own Four Cobras.

1) 302/T-5 it felt good through the gears but, in 5th there was very little acceleration.

2) 427 Top Oiler Tremec TKO great through all the gears...smooth shifting but, it did break the 5th/Reverse rail and was repaired.

3) 460 with TKO 3:73 gears , smooth shifting but 1st was useless. 2-5 made it a four speed with an overdrive but, with that much torque it accelerated no matter what.

4) 427 SO with Toploader again smooth shifting but, on any road in 4th the engine is turning a lot of RPM's and not comfortable at speed on the highway.

Both of my Tremecs had the .82 overdrive and they all were smooth shifting........My next car will have a five spped Tremec with the .82 overdrive.

One man's experience. The advise above to get it right on the front end is the best. I have found that a 3:55 rear end or a little lower with the .82 overdrive gives the best performance/comfort experience.

Tony R.

[blykins]

Jim, to help your trans feel more sure of itself during a quick gear change, you need an aftermarket shifter. The stock Tremec shifters are not spring loaded.

I know someone that can sell you one. ;-)

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by blykins

Jim, to help your trans feel more sure of itself during a quick gear change, you need an aftermarket shifter. The stock Tremec shifters are not spring loaded.I know someone that can sell you one. ;-)

Man, you'd give Lee Iacocca a run for his money. Email me the info. And email pics....Mongo like pics.

[blykins]

Yeah, but you know I'll take care of you.

The one that most people like is the Steeda Tri-Ax for the TKO 500/600. Shorter throw, spring loaded.

$190 + shipping.

I'll email you a picture.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Yeah, but you know I'll take care of you.

The one that most people like is the Steeda Tri-Ax for the TKO 500/600. Shorter throw, spring loaded.

$190 + shipping.

I'll email you a picture.

Can you post that picture? Not that I'm going to buy one but I am curious about how it looks.

[blykins]

Sure, I'll just post here instead of emailing.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Sure, I'll just post here instead of emailing.

Ahh, I see, so the offset coil springs kind of push your shifter over for third gear so it's easier to find, correct?

EDIT -- Here's a youtube video on the Steeda Tri-Ax http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4sKE0u9efk

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Ahh, I see, so the offset coil springs kind of push your shifter over for third gear so it's easier to find, correct?

There's a 3rd gear?

[blykins]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Ahh, I see, so the offset coil springs kind of push your shifter over for third gear so it's easier to find, correct?

EDIT -- Here's a youtube video on the Steeda Tri-Ax http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4sKE0u9efk

Patrick, yes.

It's spring loaded, so when you're going from 2nd to 3rd, you essentially just have to push upwards and the springs kick you over to the neutral position and you just continue to push up. When you get used to it, you're basically just shoving the thing upwards.

Rodknock...

You can use that shifter handle, or you can use the existing one that bolts to a regular Tremec shifter. A 427/289 Tremec repop handle will work.

Everyone....

I sell aluminum flywheels too.

[RICK LAKE]

TKB289 Tim before you buy a trans for the car, the to big questions are How much TORQUE and hp is your motor going to produce?? What rearend gear ratio are you looking at? What fuel system are you looking at, carb, FI system, webers? Are you going to keep this car for the long haul? If so, might you get the power craze and want a more powerful motor down the road? IMO the TKO 600 will work fine for your car. For first gear, you want something in the 2.80-2.60 depending on the rearend ratio. If the motor is stock and mild, get an steel flywheel. This stores energy better that aluminum for moving the car forward. 28-32 lb flywheel. Over drive ratio in the .80's to .70's. TKO has fixed some of the problem with there trannies. With a SB motor car, the ratio in the rearend would be a 3.31-3.54. Anything lower and your motor will be weak in grunt to push the car along at highway speeds. You want the motor about 500-700 rpms into the torque power band. This will give you the best mpg and easy accell without down shifting all the time. For my car I have a richmond 6 spd and race G-force 5 speed. I have 3.31 gearing and think it works best for the torque motor I have. IMO I think that Richmond still builds a better trans over all. Dad always said you get what you pay for and I still believe this to be very true. Rick L.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Rodknock...

You can use that shifter handle, or you can use the existing one that bolts to a regular Tremec shifter. A 427/289 Tremec repop handle will work.

Is the Tri-Ax that much better than the shifter that comes from Tremec? If I bolt my existing Kirkham-supplied handle to the Tri-Ax, then is the spring-loaded 3rd seem strange since the Kirkham-supplied handle is bent forward like the original 427 versus a modern straight up position?

I haven't done it, but I assume the switch of shifter mechanisms be done from "up top" in the interior.

Interesting. Sorry Tim for derailing your thread.

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Is the Tri-Ax that much better than the shifter that comes from Tremec? If I bolt my existing Kirkham-supplied handle to the Tri-Ax, then is the spring-loaded 3rd seem strange since the Kirkham-supplied handle is bent forward like the original 427 versus a modern straight up position?

I haven't done it, but I assume the switch of shifter mechanisms be done from "up top" in the interior.

Interesting. Sorry Tim for derailing your thread.

I'm not sure about the Kirkham setup, but the stock SPF handle that is bent forward works fine with the Tri-ax. The shift from second to third is much smoother than the stock setup and the spring loaded mechanism isn't really noticeable.

[tkb289]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Is the Tri-Ax that much better than the shifter that comes from Tremec? If I bolt my existing Kirkham-supplied handle to the Tri-Ax, then is the spring-loaded 3rd seem strange since the Kirkham-supplied handle is bent forward like the original 427 versus a modern straight up position?

I haven't done it, but I assume the switch of shifter mechanisms be done from "up top" in the interior.

Interesting. Sorry Tim for derailing your thread.

Rodney,

The shifter mechanisms are interesting indeed ... seems that they are a popular enhancement.

- Tim

[Got the Bug]

Originally Posted by blykins

Sure, I'll just post here instead of emailing.

The Steeda shifter works great. I had the stock shifter on my car for the first 2,000 miles, then upgraded. Huge improvement.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Got the Bug

The Steeda shifter works great. I had the stock shifter on my car for the first 2,000 miles, then upgraded. Huge improvement.

Well, that answers one question. Doug, you beat me to it.

[RodKnock]

Can you turn that thing around so it looks remotely like an original 427 shifter?