Lessons learned

[Gun Doc]

Disclaimer: This is a LONG post!!

Many of you have followed my many posts and request for assistance on this forum. Many have offered helpful advice and suggestions for which I am grateful. It’s now my turn to pass on some advice and lessons learned in hopes that others won’t have to go down the path I’ve been on for the past few years…

My engine is currently out of my car, in pieces at my local engine builder. It has a destroyed cam (gear) and dizzy gear which were no fault of the Webers, but were the reason I finally “threw in the towel.” It also has three cylinders washed, one of which had 75# of compression the other two around 100#. These WERE a direct result of my Webers and a poor linkage design and originally mal-adjusted floats (I set these a couple of years ago after talking with Jim Inglese). When it’s all said and done the bill should be somewhere north of $8000.00 to make everything right; this for an engine that cost nearly $16,500.00 and has less than 4900 miles on it. My current engine builder is of the opinion that the damage started from day one!

When I first took delivery of this car my throttle linkage locked up, once on the first day that actually caused the linkage to pull loose from the firewall and then again the next day, limiting the throttle travel to less than 1/3.

I repaired the linkage the first day by installing larger rivets, thinking the builder used the wrong size. When the throttle locked up (limited travel) on the freeway the next day, I limped it to my destination to find out it was binding at the carbs themselves. I disassembled the linkage. Lubed the carbs and got the linkage to move to its limit. Little did I know the damage was done!

In the months and years since, I had many tuning problems with the car, from a leaking intake gasket (non-steel core) to bent throttle shafts to floats that were not set prior to the carbs being installed. I had problems getting the carbs to sync, over rich condition at idle, hot start problems and the dreaded stumble and coughing at 2200 RPM. I re-jetted the idle circuit, set the floats, modified the linkage and repaired the throttle shaft. I drove the car very little, because of the problems. Most trips were more of “test drives” to check out the latest adjustment, or repair. I talked to all of the “experts.” It seemed everyone had a different take on what MY problem was.

Finally about this time last fall, on a sunny Sunday afternoon, I went for a very short trip around my small town when the engine coughed and quit. My Cobra had finally died. I called a flatbed, got the car home and after some basic troubleshooting discovered my dizzy gear was sheared. I was about to call it quits, cut my losses and sell the broken car at a greatly reduced price. Lucky for me I am married to a true “gearhead.” She told me in no uncertain terms that I was NOT selling the Cobra! We were going to get it fixed and fixed right!

I have been a Hot-rodder and mechanic all of my life, but I really did feel like this car had finally gotten the better of me. I hated to admit defeat, but I sure felt whipped. I decided to send the car over to Blood Enterprises to get it all sorted out. Since I live in the Pacific Northwest and we do get a little rain in the fall and winter and everyone rebuilds their cars during these months I couldn’t get the car into the shop until summer.

My engine has been out of the car since July and it probably won’t be back in the car and be ready to roll until spring (yup, the rain has started), but when it goes back in, it will be done correctly. As it turns out, that poor linkage, bent throttle shaft, (caused by the linkage) and originally high float setting resulted in the cylinders being washed, which in-turn caused the out of balance condition when attempting to sync the carbs. I’ve been chasing my tail and couldn’t see the forest for the trees!!

Now for the lessons learned:
1. Make sure your linkage is spot on – no binding and correct for the application. Miss this step and your carbs WILL NEVER WORK CORRECTLY!!

2. SET YOUR FLOATS!!!! Buy the gages, do it right!

3. Check, and then re-check EVERYTHING on your carbs. Depending on where you buy them they will be correct for your engine, or they will be “as is” from the factory, which isn’t going to work for most street engines.

4. SYNC the carbs. If you have one or more barrel noticeably off from the others – STOP and find out why! It could be something simple like a linkage adjustment, or something that will lead to bigger problems, like a bent throttle shaft. In later stages it may be due to a washed cylinder.

5. Spend the money and get your engine tuned on a Dyno by someone who knows Webers! Check around, get references and check them out.

Webers, by design are both simple and complex. On our engines everything is multiplied by four, or eight. Linkages aren’t as simple as a four barrel; floats are a PITA to adjust and jetting is mostly by trial and error – What works for me, may not work for you and it all costs money – plenty of it, but like the old Purolator commercial used to say; “Pay me now, or pay me later!”

Mine was a costly lesson; hopefully some of you will read this, follow my suggestions and save some money in the long run. The good news? Even running at 80-85% this car was scary fast. I can’t wait to see what it does at 100%!!!

Gun Doc

[zrayr]

Where were the Weber's sourced, and who set them up initially ?

I see Jim I. named as a reference, but it's not clear if the carbs came from him ?

Z.

[Gaz64]

Yes, certainly agree with Gun Doc.

Multi carb linkage setup is critical. You'll fight yourself with a rubbish linkage.

And don't trust any carb for float setting if it has been set, then posted to you.

ALWAYS check float levels prior to carb fitment.

I have never fitted any carburettor "out of the box", they all get stripped for inspection.

[Gun Doc]

No, Jim Inglese did NOT set these carbs up, nor did he supply them. They came on the engine I purchased when the car was built. It was the engine builder who sourced, installed and "tuned" the carbs.

I am contact with Jim now to get them sorted out correctly, to include linkage and jetting.

Gun Doc

[WardL]

Sure seems like another reason to not go with Weber intake system. I know they are beautiful, but why take the risk? Seems like so many have issues with these set ups, why go there? Oh, you think you have your problem solved now? We will see.....

[zrayr]

Originally Posted by WardL

Sure seems like another reason to not go with Weber intake system. I know they are beautiful, but why take the risk? Seems like so many have issues with these set ups, why go there? Oh, you think you have your problem solved now? We will see.....

Let me ask you a question:

"why date an Italian supermodel ? Seems like a lot trouble, high maintenance and all that, very risky, I hear they have issues…"

Well, guess what, Italian supermodels have no trouble getting dates. Must be "worth" it somehow.

Same with Weber carbs on an American V-8

Originally Posted by Gun Doc

No, Jim Inglese did NOT set these carbs up, nor did he supply them. They came on the engine I purchased when the car was built. It was the engine builder who sourced, installed and "tuned" the carbs.

I am contact with Jim now to get them sorted out correctly, to include linkage and jetting.

Gun Doc

that would be one engine builder to avoid. It's criminally negligent to send out an engine with binding in the linkage or carbs. This story could have easily had a very tragic ending.

NOTE: just found the related thread on PE. Hope it all gets sorted out OK

Z.

[Earl J]

Originally Posted by zrayr

Let me ask you a question:

"why date an Italian supermodel ? Seems like a lot trouble, high maintenance and all that, very risky, I hear they have issues…"

Well, guess what, Italian supermodels have no trouble getting dates. Must be "worth" it somehow.

Same with Weber carbs on an American V-8


Z.

Hey Z Ray, I like your Italian Supermodel analogy...

~E

[Rick Parker]

You can certainly wash cylinders if they (Webers) or ANY carburetor are run excessively rich or if the floats stick and allow raw fuel to get dumped. If adjusted properly and used with good fuel filters they require little maintenence or adjustment. With that in mind if you are not clear on how they operate and how to adjust them, it's best left to someone
that does. It sounds like you were delt a bad hand from the begining, good luck going forward.