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48 IDA's with EFI
Had some fun over winter creating this little set up.
Not 100% finished but its looking promising for a bolt on solution. https://i.imgur.com/siTvD2oh.jpeg |
Looks great. Nice work.
What are your plans once it's finished? Cheers |
It’ll be going into my Backdraft.
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I know someone with a set of 48 IDAs on a 408 Cleveland that, to my knowledge, has never run properly. Seems he can't find anyone to tune them properly. That EFI converstion looks like a great idea - keep the throttle bodies, run them dry, and let a good ECU (e.g. Megasquirt) handle fuel management.
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Very nicely done, Waitey!
Is this an EFI conversion, or are you planning on running both fueling systems simultaneously? If you are planning on running both simultaneously, what is your tuning strategy? |
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https://i.imgur.com/LR535Zal.jpeg |
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Since I like a project over winter, which inevitably takes me into summer and I don't get to use the car. Here we are....
This idea stemmed from loving the look of '8 stack' Webers, but hating the idea of going to back to carbs, let alone 8 of the buggers. So after a bit of googling and not liking the look of the Borlas, the cost of the Iglese, or the injector position of the Jenvey's, it kinda lead to doing it DIY. I wanted the classic looks, for it to cost sub £5k (including the ECU) and have a sensible injector position. I came across this thread on the GT40 Forum - GT40 Forum Jasper had the same idea I did, but only got it so far before shelving the project. Still it was a base to start from. I ordered the same Blue Thunder inlet he had from the states https://i.imgur.com/d4tq3Ilh.jpeg Along with some Chinese replica Webers https://i.imgur.com/M3IV09Bh.jpeg When these arrived I was super surprised at the quality, the castings are far better than the Spanish Weber castings! I'd never want to run fuel though them, but they certainly look the part. I could resist a quick mock up in the engine bay Before: https://i.imgur.com/L4wWF8ch.jpg After: https://i.imgur.com/RGDqhGQh.jpg https://i.imgur.com/4MXisVTh.jpg Looks great but its a long road ahead. The next step was getting the throttle linkage all built up as a test. I ordered the linkage bellcrank from Australia and the linkage arms from Webcon in the UK. https://i.imgur.com/hMnuVnrh.jpeg Might raise it a little depending on where I can get the injectors to fit. Also I had a got at mocking the throttle position sensor up. I want it around the back out of the way. https://i.imgur.com/jyEOJnih.jpeg So I removed this bolt from the main shaft and used this little Ali D piece, I got the blank for it from Emerald. https://i.imgur.com/2IcE1o8h.jpeg Quick test fit of the sensor and it fits quite nicely with room to make a bracket for it. https://i.imgur.com/ahnkI49h.jpeg The next step was to try an be and engineer https://i.imgur.com/9Totl2wh.jpeg Some dry shampoo on the bit I want to scan, so it’ll pick it up. https://i.imgur.com/80JtJNwh.jpeg Ta da https://i.imgur.com/H8InENSh.jpeg I've still not used this scan for designing the bracket for the sensor. I will though soon. After a lot of soul searching I decided I didn’t want to muller into my £1500 inlet manifold to try and fit some injectors at a daft angle, like Jasper did. I just couldn't help thinking I'd run into clearance issues everywhere. So after a lot of messing, (Hours and hours of designing and measuring) I’ve made these spacers with injector bosses in them. https://i.imgur.com/Jkq05xEh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/IKfXXKWh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/nZQ3Rzth.jpeg Will test fit with these then print them in nylon. Fit seems good. I’ll have room to get two fuel rails between them. https://i.imgur.com/aOrE0Vsh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/SlzFGpCh.jpeg My first time printing with carbon fibre impregnated Nylon. After a few modifications to the Ender. All metal hot end and some hardened nozzles. Wish me luck. https://i.imgur.com/rpGl0Iqh.jpeg Some time later.... The print took 9 hours but it came out lovely and is very strong. I can stand on it, and I'd definitely fit in the category of 'powerfully built executive'. https://i.imgur.com/QoT6xz3h.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/zBXuJWth.jpeg Tight packaging is tight. I’ve moved the leading injector inboard by 3mm on the latest prints to give me a bit more room for the fuel rails. https://i.imgur.com/9ik91vqh.jpeg Good job the bonnet has a vent… https://i.imgur.com/uWaW9zQh.jpeg Please to announce the throttle linkage fits... just https://i.imgur.com/Dnq9ZGPh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Yv3uyY8h.jpeg Fuel Rails fitted (Its quite tight) https://i.imgur.com/siTvD2oh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/70cWLJeh.jpeg I'm going to take 5mm off my bell crank stand to give a little more room. To constrain the rails, I made up these little brackets. https://i.imgur.com/qsK4Kkbl.png Printed in carbon Nylon like so: https://i.imgur.com/VYPJNTOh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/0FBJZAKh.jpeg Poor photo of one fitted https://i.imgur.com/x7FG4n3h.jpeg |
Spectacular work - I'm impressed!
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Nice work!
Very industrious. Hope it continues to go well...
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Big update time!
I’ve been told to get this finished soon by Mrs W. As the office, “is a f**king state”. https://i.imgur.com/W8Poe4Jh.jpeg Completed the map line take off and the brake vac take off. https://i.imgur.com/smvla1Ph.jpeg Also finished the TPS mount https://i.imgur.com/o2U11DIh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/Apg0WGgh.jpeg More thinking. https://i.imgur.com/Q38pyRgh.jpeg Hole in the middle at the bottom is for the idle control air. Tried loads of different ideas to plumb it to an idle valve. All of them required too much hose and fittings. MG rover to the rescue. K series idle valve bolts straight up with a little 3d printed spacer. https://i.imgur.com/qp45HPah.jpeg Fuel system this weekend: Made a little holder for the fuel filter so it can live at the back rather than the engine bay. https://i.imgur.com/VOcZ06fh.jpeg Fuel reg, sensor and fittings plumbed in. https://i.imgur.com/Rx5flg6h.jpeg ITB’s fitted and the engine side of the loom is done. Also done some random plumbing etc etc. I hate wiring!!!!!!! https://i.imgur.com/dOUn1sJh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/nsr6mKxh.jpeg Also got the throttle linkage done. I had to go out and buy a new slightly thinner cable though to work with the bell crank. When first set up I couldn't get full throttle, I’ve lengthened the pedal throw now, so should be grand, and a bit like a TVR to drive, as they have really long throttle pedals. https://i.imgur.com/W6QrCD3h.jpeg Rails in, injectors wired up, we have pressure too! https://i.imgur.com/efdXF5Vh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/U4ObtGnh.jpeg Ecu is in the car too. https://i.imgur.com/gMPUJKVh.jpeg Also made a little bracket for the manifold air temp. Need to make it a little more rigid. https://i.imgur.com/Owr7q8bh.jpeg The ECU is alive! https://i.imgur.com/gyEfQL4h.jpeg Now set the crank and cam sensors in the fancy distributor https://i.imgur.com/1Hm45D5h.jpeg Well these HT’s are as tight as they could be! https://i.imgur.com/dMZw1juh.jpeg Since there’s sensor inputs may as well used them. Fuel pressure https://i.imgur.com/si2dxv8h.jpeg Oil Pressure https://i.imgur.com/DF7NXKYh.jpeg Nothing is fun on a Sunday like taking an angle grinder to your bonnet. https://i.imgur.com/DzthhPjh.jpeg Todays job - Mapping. Never done an Alpha N tune before. https://i.imgur.com/hYW4LpZh.jpeg Far left screen - Terminators self generated VE map. Centre screen - Old map from the Holley Sniper Far right screen - New map using Alpha N What’s impressive was how close the Terminatirs self generated maps was to my old one. Now the fun of working out where all my fuel flows should go on an Alpha N map. Things like idle and cruise will all be in the bottom rows, then it’s a case of filling in the WOT fuel and joining the dots. https://i.imgur.com/SAnW7e9h.jpeg The last photo is the old Sniper map flipped back to VE so you can see where idle and cruise was affecting the map. So the little idle block needs transposing to the 1-2% TPS line on the Alpha N map and the lean cruise area needs to side in the 3-9% throttle area of the new map. Since this all hurt my brain after a while, I had a break and did an alignment with my DIY string kit https://i.imgur.com/pFdDxhMh.jpeg All in spec, which is impressive since I eyeballed the re fitting of the rear end. Oh you are beautiful. So happy with it. https://i.imgur.com/IR2Yxvgh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/9S8pKEdh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/dSraA1sh.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/DumTc4Wh.jpeg Its all up and running now, tuning though came to an abrupt end, when I'd forgotten to put any fuel in it.... https://i.imgur.com/WfFZQmJh.jpeg |
Very nice execution!
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Impressive, but I would get rid of the venturi and auxiliary venturi, since they are now a restriction for airflow. I'd make up a blocked off main jet and air corrector for the emulsion stack.
Then all airflow will only be via the stack. At the moment you have a stock 37mm choke, where it could be a straight barrel down to 48mm. Gary |
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I want to keep the top venturi's for the classic look. The 37mm chokes have already been removed though. The old fuelling system is all internally blocked off. |
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Hi Waitey,
I’d like to start with great job! I want to share my findings with everyone in the V8 Weber world be it IDAs or fuel injection. I’m sure if your into these setups you’ve all encountered the problems I’ve described bellow. The only problem I have found with these weber intake manifold designs is that because of there lightweight design (great for racing) it is a major contributor to gasket walking into ports and thus creating un desirable turbulence as well as future sealing issues as well as being a major contributor to throttle linkage being thrown out of adjustment. All this is not good for the everyday driving enthusiasts. This all happens because of the cored out sections that I have highlighted in red and lack of structural casting ribs going in the opposite direction highlighted in yellow thus creating accordion style flexing and twisting every time the engine heat cycles. Also show is the modifications of filling in the cored out sections and adding structural ribbing to my blue thunder intake that have eliminated intake twisting and I can verify that I have no more gasket walking or linkage adjustment problems. |
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Well,...
...perhaps starting a new thread on this topic would be the best way of engaging a discussion, Carmine. Your post may not be getting enough exposure buried in here...
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carmine,
Here's an elderly thread about gaskets creeping: 390 problems | Capital Area Cobra Club It has been a problem with lots of different engines, 351, 385, FE and so on. And if you search on Print-o-Seal you'll probably find other photos of the same problem, different engines. The solution is to use only gaskets with a steel shim sandwiched between the gasket surfaces for street engines. Even the gasket maker admitted this was a problem. Just using the gaskets for racing proved OK since they were replaced frequently. Street use with many more heat cycles resulted in creeping, allowing gas and water leakage to occur. Bottom line: use the reinforced gaskets for street! Tom |
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