Build Tools

[jeffko]

I have to admit that my tool collection is maybe appropriate for fixing bikes, skateboards, etc... In order to have a successful and enjoyable build you are going to needs tools. I have budgeted $600 for tools and I am debating about a tool chest. Since I have built 3 motors in the past, I have a reasonable understanding of what that takes and I have listed them below. What I do not know is what tools it take to build a car, what is best to use and where did you get it. For instance, being a sheet metal worker I have installed many pop rivets. It would be so much easier to use a pneumatic riveter but I do not have a compressor. I have never tried it from a, lets say one hundred pound tank. Or maybe getting the panel fitted takes enough time that it is not so hard on your forearm. Lets copy and paste the list and add to it what is missing and great sources to get them. Last but certainly not least is cost. Add it in with your source. Thanks guys, I am looking forward to reading what the snake charmers have to say.

Jeff


1. torque wrench
2. piston dead center stop
3. engine stand
4. dial indicator
5. timing light
6. cam degree wheel
7. piston ring compressor
8. valve spring compressor
9. engine silicone
10. plasti gauge
11. assemblers moly lube
12. socket set
13. wrench set

[rdorman]

I am a little confused. It seems as though you are talking about tools to build a car but you list is engine heavy. Some things I would look at borrowing, renting if possible because the tool budget and frequency of use. I am going to assume a whole car and this for a personal project, not a working shop.

You listed:
1. torque wrench, must buy
2. piston dead center stop, make one
3. engine stand, borrow rent
4. dial indicator, I would actually buy this and a dial caliper
5. timing light, borrow, after all how often do you use it?
6. cam degree wheel, borrow, used once, since in cabinet for ten years!
7. piston ring compressor, borrow rent
8. valve spring compressor, borrow rent
9. engine silicone, tool?
10. plasti gauge, handy stuff
11. assemblers moly lube, tool? You need a supply list as well!
12. socket set, ouch! None yet?
13. wrench set, ouch! None yet? One of the Craftsman package deals is best bet especially on a budget.

$600 is a tall order if you don't already have the basic mechanics tools, lets say you do. Here is what I would spend my six bills on.

- compressor, 1/2 impact, 3/8 ratchet and air hammer. package deal from sear on sale for 299. it comes with one of the stupid coil type hoses. add 30 for a 'real' hose.
- 4" ginder/cutoff. 20-30 bucks (check harbour frieght for great deals)
- touch up spray gun, 20
- large set of bits and a sharpener. HF has 115 piece titanium bit set and electric bit sharpener for about $65 total (I am assuming you have a drill!)
- air riverter, 20 (you really need to check out harbour frieght!)
- el-cheapo digital multimeter and curcuit tester, $10 for both
- cleco clamps and pliers, about 40-50 for both

Once you add in a good but reasonably priced torque wrench, dial indicator and caliper you are out of $600! There is still a long list of stuff that is good to have. Clamps of all kinds, variety of hammers, belt/disc sander, drill press, blasting cabinet, die grinder and attachments, punch set, pry bars, stethoscope, bleeding kit, AN wrenches, bench vise, dremel (SOOOO many uses), good steel rule and tape, a way to organize your tools so you don't end up looking through a drawer full of loose sockets!, jack stands and a good roll around jack, work seat on wheels and a roll around, good work light (the flouresent four bulb ones are nice), variety of compressor attachments such as tire inflator and blow gun, band saw, work bench, etc, etc, etc

Of course a good list of resources as well. Aside from many excellent suppliers that advertise here there is always Aircraft Spruce, True Sport, the metal warehouse, jegs and summit.

Sure you only have $600 set aside for tools?

Rick

[trularin]

First thing is to pay for Rick to get spelling lessons. Rick, you spell as bad as I do.

Change or add a few things:

Die grinder and/or cut-off tool
Plastic hammer(s)
Ball peen hammer(s)
Angle head diegrinder with sander
Tap and Die set

A huge bucket of rags
A even larger bucket of patience.
Catalogues from a lot of autopart suppliers.

That should help. Of course you will need to get everything Rick mentioned in his post... as well.

Just my $0.02

[jeffko]

What are the reasons someone would spend $300-400 of their build budget on an air compressor. Naturally that would necessitate air tools, not to mention air dryer, regulators, air leaks, noise. I just do not get it. Admittedly and impact wrench would be handy, but I struggle to find any other real value to an air compressor.

Harbour Freight seems to be a good tip.

New List:

Tools:
1. torque wrench $40
2. piston dead center stop (shop fab)
3. engine stand $50 (shop fab)
4. dial indicator with magnetic base $30 (ebay)
5. timing light $20
6. cam degree wheel $20
7. piston ring compressor (rent)
8. valve spring compressor (rent)
9. wrench set $40 (ebay)
10. socket set $50 (ebay)
11. dremel
12. vise grips (have these)
13. drills (have these)
14. multimeter
15. jack stands (shop fab)
16. (4) adjustable height rollers
17. floor jack
18. rolling work seat
19. 4” grinder (have this)
20. drill bits (have these)
21. punch set
22. breakover bar
23. crankshaft socket



Supplies:
1. engine silicone
2. assemblers lube
3. plasti gauge
4. shop rags
5. dry sweep

[rdorman]

Originally posted by trularin


First thing is to pay for Rick to get spelling lessons. Rick, you spell as bad as I do.

I don't need no stinking spelling lessons Actually, I am still waiting for Brent to put in the spell check. I spell check EVERYTHING at work. Never one of my strong suits.

You don't 'need' an compressor, but it such a flexable tool that I would recommend one. For $299 you can get the compressor (33 gallon 6.5 horse), hose, fitting, impact, ratchet and air hammer. Sure, you will want to add to that collection.

Rick

[Lew Ledyard]

Two glaring omissions:

1. Beer;
2. Swimsuit calendar.

[ToyCollector]

1. Wrenches
2. Screwdrivers
3. Socket drivers 1/4, 3/8 and half

I am getting you essentially to work up to buy the biggest Craftsmen set for about $300 you can. They will last a lifetime if treated right. I have STOOD on a socket (in my younger years of course) with an allen bit that I snapped (of course with my lard ass on it) and SEARS was happy to replace the socket bit.

4. Air compressor.
5. Buy the following air tools at Harbor Freight/Northern:

Die grinder (also get rotary file bits for it to use it to shave metal, cutoff tool, air body saw, air blasting chuck), then you can move on to air powered drill, air powered sander, air ratchets, impact wrenches). With air tools, as a hobbiest, do not get hung up on name brands, we use them less than the pros and they last a long time if treated right as well. I view air power as the biggest garage upgrade you can do once you have the essential tools.

6. Tool oil. Always be kind to your tools and clean them once a year if you don't when you put them away and give them a wipe with some anti-rust stuff.

If you are building a single motor, you will spend in tools alone what it may cost you to pay an engine builder. If you are planning on bulding several, your list is a good start.

[Lowell W]

Most of the above are good suggesions, especially starting with air. Once you have air and air tools, you'll wonder how you ever got along without it/them. Just being able to put on the air gun with the long wand and stick it in somewhere and blow all the dust and crap out is worth the price of a cheap compressor. A good compressor will set you back several times the cost of your entire budget, but you can start out with the cheapie and upgrade when you wear it out.

My biggest recommendation is to NOT BUY TAIWANESE/CHINESE TOOLS if at all possible. This means Harbor Freight, for the most part. One glaring exception may be their $150 floor jack, which does seem to be a reasonably well-made item at the price. Time will tell though: I've had mine for a year or so and some friends bought one or two for their hobby racing shop. I circled that sucker with my nose in the wind for a long time before plunking down any green paper, though. Cheap tools are frustrating, infuriating and DANGEROUS. You can expand your tool budget by buying what you need as you go along, if you're patient. Other possibilities are used tools, available from auctions, flea markets, local classified ads, Ebay, etc. Threshing shows (big ones near you would be Sycamore and Pontiac) can be a great source of used tools and hardware. When my budget was smaller than it is today, I tried to cheap out by buying foreign tools, all of which I've since given or thrown away. I remember going to one of those itinerant "cheap tool" sales and buying a cheap die grinder, thinking I got a great deal. When I took it back ot the shop and hooked it up to air, it wouldn't shut off. So I had to go all the way back to the sale, where they offered to replace it. "Ha, Ha, F*** you-I want my money back". Lesson learned.

The thing about tools is, the more tools you have, the more adept you become at doing stuff and the more tools you need, on and on but you don't have to buy everything all at once. To my way of thinking, a shop really isn't complete without air, at least one welder, a big grinder, a hand grinder, a welding table a lathe, a blast cabinet, etc., etc. Decide what you need RIGHT NOW, buy it new if you can't find or don't want used, but buy the best you can afford. There's nothing wrong with Craftsman tools and there are bunches of 'em available used. Let people know what you're looking for and it'll turn up. A friend recently found me a nice Bridgeport mill in great shape, after years of just keeping his eyes open.

A year from now, you'll look back at your "$600 tool budget" and get a good chuckle.

[jeffko]

A lot of what you guys, and it seems that most all agree, say makes sense about a compressor. But air tools do not have any torque, you have to put the tank somwhere, run electrical to it, drag around a 3/4" hose and/or run air lines above, not to mention the expense. I know myself well enough to know that a $300 compressor would be out of the question. Like you guys have pointed out....inferior tools are frustrating and dangerous. bottom line is that they are a waste of money. With the money you waste on bad tools and the money you spend on decent replacements you could have had some awesome tools. I do think Craftsman tools are fine though. I have busted a few knuckles on jap crap when I was younger and I do not care for 12 point sockets of any brand. Anybody heard of or used Westward tools? One of the shop guys gave me a catalog and said that they were ok tools.

I am not tight or cheap, but I do like to know what I am doing and get what I expect out of myself and items I purchase.

I just had a thought. Has anyone ever investigated using the steel joist supprting the wood flooring joists in your garage. I wonder...sure would be nice to pull off that drywall and have a rolling crane beam.

[lineslinger]

The boys advice above about cheap tools is dead on. If you can, STAY AWAY from them. 90% of the time you will be heading over to sears to replace the junk piece that at the time was such a "good" deal.
ALSO, you will need:
A mini refrigerator to keep your beer in. A portable phone so you can ignore it when it rings, (always while you are on your back underneath the thing), a supersoaker to repel wives and kids, (family Lab gets a bye on this one) and finally a radio so you can crank up the volume of the ball game and not hear any of the above!

Mark

[rdorman]

Good tools are worth the money. All the air tools I purchased at Harbor Freight where Cambell Hausfeld, an Ohio company. I thought they where US made. But, there is definiatly some junk to be had at Harbor Freight if you don't know what you are looking at. Never used or heard of Westward. Craftmen hands tools are a 'best buy'. If you only have $600 and not already stocked with mechanics tools then the compressor is not going to fit in the budget now. "no torque", my 1/2 impact wrench has 450 ft-lbs of torque. I might as well hold on to the rear wheel of the car while so one floors the throttle! The Craftsmen package deals that go on sale all the time are good deals but because you don't even need a receipt to exchange a defective Craftsman mechanics/hand tool don't even give it a seond thought to buying them used. Power tools are a different story! I don't know what kind of load that beam and its supports will carry. Be careful! If you are going to fab stands may I suggest the triangulated kind that sit on the floor and go from frame rail to frame rail. Simple, effective, stable design that is easy to fabricate.

On a lighter note. Not only do I have the beer (for after of course), but a refrigerator, stereo, padded seats on wheels, all the posters and banners, heater for those cold days (garage is detached), phone, reading material (all car related of course) and in a pinch there is even a hammock in the corner! Home sweet home!

Rick

[rdorman]

Originally posted by lineslinger


you will be heading over to sears to replace the junk piece that at the time was such a "good" deal.

You don't like Craftsman mechanics tools? I have been using them for 25 years and aside from the occasional ratchet have been very happy with them. Including regular racing and light professional work. Sure there are better, but the price, warranty and ease of exchange is wonderful. Now the power tools, I must be really hard on them but there was a spell a while back where I went through their power tools like water. Stuck to Milwaukee, dewalt, bosch and the like and have been fine since.

One last benefit of the compressor, my porter cable air nailer comes in a close second to the smith and wesson 9mm when it comes to home defense!

Rick

[jeffko]

Well we can all agree on the necessity for quality tools. I would also agree that Craftsman tools provide adequate service for a reasonable price. Additionally you cannot beat the guarantee and store locations.

Air vs. power tools seems to be up for grabs. Although I would love to have a compressor I view it as a luxury item, much like a welder, which I want more than a compressor. I know myself well enough to say I would spend 5 to 6 hundred on a 60 gallon upright and accessories. A little 15 gallon tank will have to do for now. Air tools became body shop favorites for good reasons. They are lighter, more of a finesse tool due to the low torque and they generally provide more rpm’s. However, my paint & body guy specifically told me to leave the bodywork to him. For me you can’t beat a Milwaukee or Bosche tool. They have power to spare and rarely fail. To top it off you can get the best air tool ever, torque wrench, in an electric version.

Of course any garage worth hanging out in has a frig, posters, calendars, comfortable break chairs and a stereo.

Adding it all up is $675. Additional cost are shop fab materials that I can’t scrounge up back there, gotta have its and unexpected needs. I think it reasonable to put the tool costs at $850, which provides for an extra $175.


Tools: $530 Rentals: $115
1. torque wrench (ebay $50 Craftsman ½” drive 25-250)
2. piston dead center stop (shop fab from Car Craft article)
3. engine stand ($50 shop fab)
4. dial indicator with magnetic base ($30 ebay)
5. timing light ($20 Chraftsman ebay)
6. cam degree wheel ($20 shop fab duplicate)
7. piston ring compressor (rent)
8. valve spring compressor (rent)
9. Craftsman wrench set ($40 ebay)
10. Craftsman socket set ($50 ebay)
11. dremel ebay $100
12. ‘c’ type, jaw type & paddle vise grips (have 4 of each)
13. drills (have a 3/8” and cordless)
14. multimeter (Fluke 77 $15 ebay)
15. jack stands (shop fab)
16. (4) adjustable height rollers (shop fab)
17. floor jack (AC Delco at sears $40)
18. rolling work seat creeper combo ($80 sears)
19. 4” grinder (have this)
20. drill bits (have these)
21. punch set (have these)
22. breakover bar (have this)
23. hoist (rent)
23. crankshaft socket ($8 sears)


Supplies: $30
1. engine silicone
2. assemblers lube
3. plasti gauge
4. shop rags
5. dry sweep

[trularin]

With the exception of the Kirkham cars, I think it is safe to say you will be working with a composite body. Air tools are the nut.

And, Yes! Air tools make building the engine easier. However I use a torque wrench on just about everything on the engine and trans.

I would like to suggest that although this is not a bad idea, asking what we all have or had to build our cars, you might want to just get a project going and see what you will need.

Then, when the next person comes along and asks what do you need to start, you will be the first member to say, "Hey you should start out with a ... "

Personally, the car sat for soo long on jack-stands I thought there were part of the car. LOL

All of these guys are suggesting items you will probably end up with.

Most of my tools are Snapon, Craftman or Chicago Pneumatic. ( talk about my spelling ). I also have a sizable collection of special tools.

You are are going to get an education about the quality of tools when you start your car. Rick is 100% corrrect about "Good tools are worth the money." He is not kidding.

Just my $0.04 ( I spent a little extra ) LOL

[Lowell W]

One last benefit of the compressor, my porter cable air nailer comes in a close second to the smith and wesson 9mm when it comes to home defense!

Uh-oh...Don't start talking like that or we'll only be able to buy nails in clips of 10!

[red]

HI
I agree with the tool lists, these are all useful tools. You might be surprised at how many guys out there might have an engine stand and an engine hoist that they no longer need, and will want to part with for a very resonable price,(while makeing room in their garage). A couple of tools that I found useful were a $50.00 drill press,and belt sanders. One belt sander is 3/4in. wide and got into some real tight places, Milwaukee makes it.

[lineslinger]

rdorman,
I guess I didn't state my opinion clearly. What I meant was you will be heading over to Sears to replace the " Chinese junk" that was such a "deal" with a quality tool such as Craftsman. I've got Craftsman tools in my chest that belonged to my dad. Every time I return a tool to them, (which is very seldom) they never blink, just hand me the new one and I'm back at it.
My power nailer is very effictive on cats and squirrels, when the neighbors hear it go off they think I'm working on another construction project.

Lineslinger

[blykins]

I myself wouldn't build an engine with Plastigage. I've got more confidence in a good bore mic and a micrometer.....I wouldn't put much insurance in a piece of dental floss that expands for a $10k engine.

[1 R.B.]

How about a double flare tool, a tubing bender and a tubing cutter for those fuel and brake lines.
Roland

[PNJSNAK]

I do not recall seeing a good set of hole saws on the list. Do not buy the adjustable set, they are normally junk. You will need these for the roll bars, the jack support bars, holes thru interior panels to run your electrical and a bunch more.
Also, a good set of wire strippers/crimpers are a must for the wiring. A good supply of tie wraps for bundling the wires and all the plastic loom to protect the wires.
One of the best air tools I purchased was the little reciprocating saw (like a mini sawsall), great for making cuts in fiberglass.
Don't forget one of those great "Manly" tool boxes from Sears to hold all these great tools you will buy. The bigger the better, you will always be adding tools to it.
ps. I never in my wildest dreams thought I would spend the amount of money on the tools that I did.
But, now I have a great "Manly" tool box filled with tools and Sears can continue to stay open.
Good Luck.
Jim