New guy....needs lots of advise.

[Noel]

Guys, This is my first post. After reading through the archives, i have not been able to get nuts and bolts answers to my basic questions. First, here is my deal: I don't own a cobra...yet. I also don't know a ton about the different parts, but I do have a basic working knowledge (example: I don't know what a"side oiler" is). I'm ready to pull the trigger but really need some help first. I've been leaning toward a Superformance from D&M motorsports...now here is where I'm hurtin: what do I put in it and why? I've never had anyone tell me simple answers to what I assume are simple questions, like what is the actual difference between the small block and large block? which one is faster? does one require a different transmission than the other? Every source that I've checked says something like "there are many different opinions", but nobody has told me why. Also, everyone seems to know a ton about these cars except for me. I've bought the book "the complete guide to cobra replicas" and watched the DVD "Bitten by the Snake", but it didn't tell me anything that I can really use, like: a Backdraft Racing is better than a Superformance, or Rousch engines suck, don't buy one (just an example). All they say is "check out your options", nothing that I can really use to make a buying decision.

I want the car to be really fast, I already own a fast car but want this to be the beast of the two. Good news: my budget is fairly large, I'm comfortable paying toward the high end of what these things go for. I just don't want to build one of these then, realize I made a bad decision (or overpaid), and have to end up swapping engines or whatever. So...........with all of that said if you guys were to build one of these puppies, with 60 or 70k to do it with, what would you do? why? Would you pick the Superformance? Why/why not? I'm totally open, and would really appreciate whatever advise you guys have.

Thanks in advance, Noel

[slithering]

Noel,

I'm emailing you, call me.

[Ron61]

Noel,

That is an almost impossible question for anyone to answer. Basically it comes down to you and what you want in the car. All replicas today are for the most part very well made and not the glued together kits of years past.
How accurate to the original are you wanting to be? Do you care if it looks exactly like an original? The Big Block/Small Block can be argued until dooms day with no winner. They both have their advantages. A 427 side oiler has an oil gallery on the side for the lower end and screw in freeze plugs. Many of the earlier 427s were called center oilers because that was the way they oiled. But when driven in race conditions, not enough oil got down to the bottom end, hence the side oiled was developed.
As to which is the best car, almost every person has a different opinion. Superformance is very good I think, and ERA is about the top of the line except for The Shelby's and Kirkhams. If you order a Shelby, you won't have the stress of having to hurry to get everything together. Right Jdog!

Ron

[Blas]

Noel,
Consider attending one of our WCCC club events. You should be able to see, hear, and experience many combinations of car and engine. And...how do you define "better"?
It really all comes down to personal preferance and $$$. (or is it $$$ and then personal preference?)

[Noel]

Thanks guys,

slithering, never got an email, I'll keep looking.

Ron 61, Thanks for the reply. I guess I should be a little more specific. I was leaning toward the Superformance because they are all new. To me, "all new" means more driving, less fixing. I was thinking about putting a new drivetrain in a SPF just because it seemed easiest.

about the big block/small block controversey: what are the opinions? which one is faster? I keep hearing that there are many different views, but I don't know what those views are. basically what I want is the fastest most hassle free car I can assemble...I would love to drag race it. I would drive it on the track and the street. is there any reason to pay up for a rousch motor? (other than the 2 yr warrenty) I don't really care about it being "original", I guess the safety and performance advancements over the years make me want a new car. Also, if I were to buy a used car, I feel my ignorance would let me get "run over". Someone that is really handy with a wrench could hide stuff easily from a newbie like me.

[midwestcobra]

I too was in your shoes a few months ago.... What I did was just show up here every morning and read as many posts for about an hour or so and absorb it all. Although I am still unclear on a few things I am going to end up with I am fairly certain where I want to go with the cars build....


I am leaning towards SPF's too although I didnt think ERA was a better build until I just read that above... might have to look into that claim!

As far as engines go, you are asking for nearly the impossible... drag race, track-ability, and street cruising all in one.

Drag = big block
Track = small block
Street = either

.... is about what I am finding out. And by small block, everyone is referring to a stroked small block... from what I can tell.

Good luck on your hunt for info and if possible keep conversations to this thread as so others can learn as well!

OH, and 1 more thing... With the amount of $$$ your saying you have available, you may not have to spend it all to get a very very nice car! Just define what is important for you and get it!

[Ron61]

Noel,

If you are interested in drag racing then I would suggest the big block would most likely be your best bet. Especially if you want to drive it on the street. I like road racing and went with the small block stroker for handling, but my big block will walk all over it on a long straight. Can't beat cubic inches in a straight line. You can get gread performance out of a big block withut having to built it out to where it isn't streetable. And remember, these are not real heavy cars either.
The Superformance comes complete except engine and tranny. And I have seen several and they are really very nice. But one thing to remember is that these cars are a maintenance type car and you have to keep on top of stuff.
As for the big blocks, a 427 will set you back a good chunk as they are getting hard to find. A good 428 CJ engine can be fixed up just a little and they will run like mad without a lot of problems. A 390 can be bult to give great performance with little problems just so long as you don't go to wild on everything.

Ron

[Noel]

Thanks for the quick replies.

Okay, here is a fundamental question. WHY is a big block not good for the track/handling? is it just the weight? I thought it was about 100lbs. more, is that really that big of a difference?

is there any difference in the 0-60 times between the two or just quarter mile times? (assuming that the big block has better 1/4 mile but not necessarily 0-60 times)

also, wouldn't the suspension set up more than compensate for the extra 100lbs. or so??

[ENTDOC]

60 or 70 grand.thats easy;Kirkham 427,427 sideoiler or Shelby aluminum block 427 stroker. Nothing wrong with a SPF or ERA(my personal favorite of the fiberglass cars) but the Kirkham has it over both and it is aluminum and much more accurate than the others. chuck

[ENTDOC]

noel,keep in mind that an aluminum big block with aluminum heads manifold ect.. weighs less than an iron small block. If you decide on a small block car,go with a Kirkham FIA or an ERA fia. These are small block based cobras and handle very well,plus the motor is correct for the car.
All things being equal.the lighter the car, the better the handling and the better the accelleration given the same HP. For some of us,only a 427so will do,but it is not the final word in speed or handling. chuck

[Noel]

what is the difference between a 427 sideoiler or Shelby aluminum block 427 stroker? ie...cost/benefit

[Noel]

Also, why a Kirkham or ERA and not the Superformance?

[Ron61]

Noel,

With the new aluminum blocks and everything, they really don't weigh nearly as much as the old ones did. By track handling, I am talking road courses where you have some very tight and short, flat, corners. Not many long straights where the cubic inches can come into play. Many of the fastest Cobras at one of our local road tracks which is just over 3 miles around are the Factory 5s with the 302s in them.
Chuck made some very good points in his posts just prior to this one. And since you said you weren't concerned about it looking original, that gives you a lot of lee way to play. Nothing on my replica is remotely original right down to the 94 inch wheel base, but what a difference that 4 inches makes in handling.

Ron

[xlr8or]

Noel you might want to make the trek down to Ohio in June for one or both of the shows going on there. One is in London OH and the other is called DVSF. You will be able to see many different makes up close. There will probably be a convoy heading down there from the Chicago area again. Spend some time with the Windy City Club guys and check out their cars locally. This way you can see cars and owners together and ask specific about the cars they have.

[ENTDOC]

427so,is the original iron motor for the 427 cobra. The new aluminum Shelby blocks have some oiling differences compared to the side oiler(probably better) The stroker is a simple way to gain hp,example; a 428 crank in a 427 = 454 cu.

Superformance is a great car,I just like the ERA better.
chuck

[rdorman]

Big budget beast = arruminum side oiler.

Rick

[ezplans]

I was just at a 2 day open track event (Los Angeles Shelby American Club) this past weekend. There were 6 Cobras, 5 were Superperformance, mine was the only big block (427 sideoiler) - just anecdotal. Only one was faster around the track, it was trailered in and on racing slicks. However, I did have the thrill of pulling the fast Cobra 10-15 cars on the straight. My car was tire (15 inch goodyear eagle 1's, 235/60f, 275/60r) and driver (me) challenged. On the flat (coned off skidpad) 180 turn onto the main straight the car in NASCAR terms pushed like a dumptruck, otherwise it was well behaved. Any speed it gained was made on gassing it between the turns, not cornering speed.

Bill

[bulletbrown]

Know one has mention RESALE. Take a long look at the value of a 427 and the show power of this engine. I,m always being ask,
"is it a 427?". The average guy connects Cobra and big block 427
and it won Lemans with the , you guest it the 427....... That is the reason they bring more money ,as a rule, with the FE engines.
Take senior club member Blas advice and join the club and meet
, talk and hear from the best Cobra group you will ever find. I did.

[BlueRooster]

If you go the SPF route, by the look of your post I would go with the small block. It is much easier to work on. My 460 is a big block and it is shoehorned in(not easy to work on) and it sounds like you dont want to work on it much. You can make a small block as fast as you want, and they are fairly reliable. If you race, I believe the concensus on this board would be small block. My big block is a bull in a china shop, and I will eat anything alive in a straight line. I will find out soon what it will do on a track and I am sure that I will find plenty of miatas that will put me to shame arond the sharp turns. Which would bring you to cost. A superformance works well with a small block. I dont think having an FE(side oiler) is going to make the price that much higher on resale. The only thing that will happen is you will pay triple to have one built, and you will take a bigger hit on resale.

BTW, this is all my opinion. Dont get me wrong, I love my BB 460. I wouldnt trade it for anything, and if I buy another it will be a 460...no doubt. Its a perfect motor for me. Strong, reliable, and the sound is nothing short of amazing. If you want to talk about it send me a PM.

Dane

[got snake?]

Originally posted by Noel


Also, why a Kirkham or ERA and not the Superformance?

Have you seen a Kirkham up close or any of the car you mentioned? You also should drive as many as you can to get a true understanding of what these cars are all about. You need to feel it...Its VERY hard to explain. Come to a club meet. We have Rouch powered cars here. And big blocks. We even have 11.5 sec. BUICK GN powered cobras!!! Heck we are going to have a pretty big outing this Saturday. See if there is an open seat available. Talk to owners and have them POINT OUT exactly what they like and dislike about their machines. Researching cobras online is ok but getting a first had knowledge from a local owner is priceless. One piece of advice I have for you is this...DO NOT JUMP INTO A COBRA WITHOUT DRIVING ONE AND PROPERLY BUDGETING FOR ONE! These snakes do bite back in more ways then one!!! just my .02

Sid