460 usability?

Quintum · #1 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 07:35 AM

Hello Everyone.

I am doing a bit of research before I start my kit (it'll be a year or two down the road). The current kit I am looking at is an FFR IV, and I have a few questions regarding using a 460 block.

Currently I am looking at doing a 460cc (maybe stroked out to say a 482) engine. Nothing to wild, hydraulic cam, run on 91 octane (Phoenix, AZ). While trying to get as close to 600 hp if possible (If the engine were to be over 600 hp, I'm sure I could find someone to twist my arm).

What I'm wondering is what will this engine run like? Daily driver possible? From what I understand this wont be a problem.

Gas mileage? Reason for asking is that I will be wanting to do some driving around the state and maybe even cross country. So if I go to L.A. from phx az, for the weekend will I need to hit up the gas station 20 times or maybe 6 times?

Heat issues? Living in phx az, it can get pretty hot here. Will there be issues with driving the car around night time when its still 110 out? or even better yet, during the day time sitting at lights?

The fit? 460 block is pretty big. I was wondering how the fit is for a FFR kit? Will I need to take the engine out to change the spark plugs? Or take off an engine mount and tilt the engine so I can remove the starter (yea don't laugh, had to do that once...)?

Thanks for all your input.

Warm Regards,
Dave

pliot_guy · #2 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 09:56 AM

A little unrelated but similar to your questions. I have a chevy 454 in mine. Yes, It gets hot easily when at idle or during stop and go. The gas mileage... im not sure of my exact mpg because I've only had the cobra for a few months but 1 full tank of premium gas (approx $60 here in CA) will last me about 1 day of driving around for a few hours/150 -200 miles. I would imagine its somewhere in the area of 10-12 mpg. Hope that helps ! Im sure someone can reply who has a 460

DanEC · #3 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 10:13 AM

Be aware the 429/460 engine is a heavyweight. You might want to invest in aluminum heads and intake. You might also want to talk to FFR about the fit in their chassis and ease of maintenance.

xlr8tr · #4 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 10:43 AM

460 for daily driver should not be a problem at the build level you are talking about; mileage will suck especially with carbs, fuel injection would be better. I have no heat related issues, its rock steady runnign hard or in traffic, but I'm not driving in 110 degrees (probably 95 the hottest its been in!). Aluminum heads/intake would be a good idea.

KVenom · #5 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 11:08 AM

I have a 460 crate engine in my MKIII and I love it. All the torque you can ask for and very dependable. It's right at 500 HP and is very predictable. You can easily get to the spark plugs. The car handles like it's on rails. I do have the IRS and anti-sway bars. I do not have power steering but I believe it would be nice for parking as the steering is a bit heavy. Fuel mileage is really pretty good until put your foot into it. This would be an issue with any other engine. Would I build it again? Absolutely!

bran3b · #6 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 12:17 PM

My 460 is very drivable. The torque allows short shifting to keep RPMs down and extend mileage, on the other hand I can easily blow through a tank of gas if I drive a bit more aggressively. I did have an overheating problem that was eventually traced back to a fuel delivery issue and has since been resolved. On hotter days I try to keep it moving, sitting in traffic can be worrisome but it stays below 210. I have a carb but would recommend injection if possible. I am also running iron heads at 9.5:1 compression and think that I am pushing my luck a little but no detonation so far, I would prefer aluminum with heads to prevent this. The engine is heavy but the car still feels fairly balanced, aluminum would help that too.

sspano01 · #7 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 05:59 PM

i have a 460, stroker to 521 inches, with aluminum heads and intake. fuel injection and 6-speed manual. i love the 521! idles great, sounds terrific, and has lots of power. a little too much for track days, but i love it!

just get good tires! avon tires are the best if you stay with 15 inches!

xlr8tr · #8 (**permalink**) 11-01-2012, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sspano01

i have a 460, stroker to 521 inches, with aluminum heads and intake. fuel injection and 6-speed manual. i love the 521! idles great, sounds terrific, and has lots of power. a little too much for track days, but i love it!

just get good tires! avon tires are the best if you stay with 15 inches!

Agreed big time on the tires, they are a safety item. I have the goodyear billboards, but had BFG t/a's before: night and day difference. Situations where the BFG's would spin (usually at all the wrong times) are now not an issue.

D-CEL · #9 (**permalink**) 11-02-2012, 07:56 AM

Yes the 385 series BB (429-460) will fit in an FFR and is a fantastic engine platform. Many great cylinder heads, inexpensive long stroke cranks and very strong factory blocks make it the best “HP per Dollar” big block.
First decide how much power you want and where you want to make it.
Here is a good solid street BB
2 bolt block bored to 4.390 with a 4.500 stroke cast crank would make 545 C.I.
At 10.5-1with a hydraulic roller cam and a set of P51 heads.

Should be plenty to scare the crap out of you and turn your tires into piles of smoldering, giggle inducing, black powder goodness!!~
a BIG drag radial might help.....

Jason

Quintum · #10 (**permalink**) 11-02-2012, 08:27 AM

Great input all.

As for the Tires, I've already done some searching and will be sticking with the 15 's. Looks like one of the main issues is weight. I've pm'd Keith, and that was one of his main issues as well. Not sure if I'll be doing much Track day stuff. And if I do it will not be on a competitive basis. I'm sure I'll hit the 1/4 track and see how it does there as well.

Thanks again for all the input. And if anyone comes up with something that was hard about their build regarding the 460 block I'd be interested to hear what it was.

Regards,
Dave

Quintum · #11 (**permalink**) 11-02-2012, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Should be plenty to scare the crap out of you and turn your tires into piles of smoldering, giggle inducing, black powder goodness!!~
a BIG drag radial might help.....

Jason

Jason,

So when I go have my engine built. I'll be taking my lap top with me and I'll be showing the builder this very line, all the while saying "THATS WHAT I WANT!" and muttering "and if I keep my foot out of it, let it have some gas mileage please."

Dave

KVenom · #12 (**permalink**) 11-02-2012, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintum

Jason,

So when I go have my engine built. I'll be taking my lap top with me and I'll be showing the builder this very line, all the while saying "THATS WHAT I WANT!" and muttering "and if I keep my foot out of it, let it have some gas mileage please."

Dave

Zackly!

Silversmith · #13 (**permalink**) 11-03-2012, 03:27 AM

750 HP & 700 TQ for under $12k

No problem with the 385 series 460cid

So when your done you'll have a MKIV weighing less than 2500 lbs. & well less than 40k. Providing you do the engine build & paint/all! Just

PS if you are interested in a 460 build sheet to produce above #'s drop me a line.

mdross1 · #14 (**permalink**) 11-03-2012, 04:38 AM

Have had our 460 powered car for nearly 20 yrs and it still gives me serious thrill rides when rowing through the gears.Tires are very important these 385 motors are torque monsters even mildly built.We have undercar exhaust with chambered muffs that sound incredible.Milage? never really cared because of the fun factor but a few years back regeared the 9" to 3:73 and installed a Tremec TKO when clicking into 5th rpm's drop almost 1k,for excellent cruising.Enjoy opening the hood and hearing the Wow from most that want to see.

Quintum · #15 (**permalink**) 11-03-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdross1

Have had our 460 powered car for nearly 20 yrs and it still gives me serious thrill rides when rowing through the gears.Tires are very important these 385 motors are torque monsters even mildly built.We have undercar exhaust with chambered muffs that sound incredible.Milage? never really cared because of the fun factor but a few years back regeared the 9" to 3:73 and installed a Tremec TKO when clicking into 5th rpm's drop almost 1k,for excellent cruising.Enjoy opening the hood and hearing the Wow from most that want to see.

mdross the only reason that I've brought up mileage thing was, I was wondering how many stops between L.A. and Phx I would have to make. Granted depending on the tank size... yada yada yada.

Everyone, thank you once again for your input. I must say that they have all been positive results. Are you sure that there isn't anything wrong with working on, fitting, any adjustments that need to be made? (granted the entire job is gonna be one big adjustment).

Warm regards to all.
Dave

Silversmith · #16 (**permalink**) 11-03-2012, 05:24 PM

Quintum, Go to "popualrhotrodding.com" no need to suscribe. Rite under the big yellow Hot Rodding letters you will see the site tool bar. Left to right it will read "Home, Technical, Event coverage, etc." Next, enter into the "search popular hot rodding" box located to the right of the big yellow Hot Rodding letters this caption. "Building a Big-Block Ford Using Shelf Parts-Ah Rats!" That should put you to the artical & the 460 build sheet. The artical/spec build sheet is from the June 2009 issue of popular hot rodding, written by Stephen Kim. I placed the artical on my fav's list & printed out a copy.

The cost of the build in 09 was $9,600. It is most likely close to 12K by now. Still, I know of no other engine producing that much dependable juice, for that little money, even today!

If you have any trouble locating the artical let me know & we'll try another method. Enjoy M8!

WELCOME TO THE ADDICTION THERE IS NO CURE

Quintum · #17 (**permalink**) 11-03-2012, 08:20 PM

Thanks Silversmith,

I went ahead and got the url and thought I'd just put it out there for everyone.
Building A Big-Block Ford Using Shelf Parts - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversmith

Quintum, Go to "popualrhotrodding.com" no need to suscribe. Rite under the big yellow Hot Rodding letters you will see the site tool bar. Left to right it will read "Home, Technical, Event coverage, etc." Next, enter into the "search popular hot rodding" box located to the right of the big yellow Hot Rodding letters this caption. "Building a Big-Block Ford Using Shelf Parts-Ah Rats!" That should put you to the artical & the 460 build sheet. The artical/spec build sheet is from the June 2009 issue of popular hot rodding, written by Stephen Kim. I placed the artical on my fav's list & printed out a copy.

The cost of the build in 09 was $9,600. It is most likely close to 12K by now. Still, I know of no other engine producing that much dependable juice, for that little money, even today!

If you have any trouble locating the artical let me know & we'll try another method. Enjoy M8!

WELCOME TO THE ADDICTION THERE IS NO CURE

D-CEL · #18 (**permalink**) 11-06-2012, 06:31 AM

That is such a great article. I love a solid roller and it will make a giant number, you just have to be willing to run the valves occasionally.
I would take advantage of the extra stroke and displacement for little if any extra $ and have the piston faces TB coated (Swain or equiv)
Fuel mileage: a 557 inch motor will be a thirsty devil!
The MPG will be ....low, Just a function of volume.
However, the SPH (smiles per hour) of a 750hp/750tq Cobra are unmatched in the car world, so there ya go!

Jason

Dominik · #19 (**permalink**) 11-06-2012, 07:26 AM

It shouldn't get hot at idle or stop 'n go. Check your fan, thermostat and timing.

mdross1 · #20 (**permalink**) 11-06-2012, 03:37 PM

Dave, As long as you do your homework on what performance level you need and build the motor around that.In other words,reasonable compression ratio,a cam to complement the heads and intake matched to the rpm level you will most likely run in.Not too big a carb or FI,finally a good tune.
Understand your concern for mpg,go with a reasonable rear gear ratio and an OD trans should satisfy your mpg needs.
Have fun with your build good luck finding the right builder or machinist.
Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quintum

mdross the only reason that I've brought up mileage thing was, I was wondering how many stops between L.A. and Phx I would have to make. Granted depending on the tank size... yada yada yada.

Everyone, thank you once again for your input. I must say that they have all been positive results. Are you sure that there isn't anything wrong with working on, fitting, any adjustments that need to be made? (granted the entire job is gonna be one big adjustment).

Warm regards to all.
Dave