460 usability?

[Quintum]

Hello Everyone.

I am doing a bit of research before I start my kit (it'll be a year or two down the road). The current kit I am looking at is an FFR IV, and I have a few questions regarding using a 460 block.

Currently I am looking at doing a 460cc (maybe stroked out to say a 482) engine. Nothing to wild, hydraulic cam, run on 91 octane (Phoenix, AZ). While trying to get as close to 600 hp if possible (If the engine were to be over 600 hp, I'm sure I could find someone to twist my arm).

What I'm wondering is what will this engine run like? Daily driver possible? From what I understand this wont be a problem.

Gas mileage? Reason for asking is that I will be wanting to do some driving around the state and maybe even cross country. So if I go to L.A. from phx az, for the weekend will I need to hit up the gas station 20 times or maybe 6 times?

Heat issues? Living in phx az, it can get pretty hot here. Will there be issues with driving the car around night time when its still 110 out? or even better yet, during the day time sitting at lights?

The fit? 460 block is pretty big. I was wondering how the fit is for a FFR kit? Will I need to take the engine out to change the spark plugs? Or take off an engine mount and tilt the engine so I can remove the starter (yea don't laugh, had to do that once...)?

Thanks for all your input.

Warm Regards,
Dave

[pliot_guy]

A little unrelated but similar to your questions. I have a chevy 454 in mine. Yes, It gets hot easily when at idle or during stop and go. The gas mileage... im not sure of my exact mpg because I've only had the cobra for a few months but 1 full tank of premium gas (approx $60 here in CA) will last me about 1 day of driving around for a few hours/150 -200 miles. I would imagine its somewhere in the area of 10-12 mpg. Hope that helps ! Im sure someone can reply who has a 460

[DanEC]

Be aware the 429/460 engine is a heavyweight. You might want to invest in aluminum heads and intake. You might also want to talk to FFR about the fit in their chassis and ease of maintenance.

[xlr8tr]

460 for daily driver should not be a problem at the build level you are talking about; mileage will suck especially with carbs, fuel injection would be better. I have no heat related issues, its rock steady runnign hard or in traffic, but I'm not driving in 110 degrees (probably 95 the hottest its been in!). Aluminum heads/intake would be a good idea.

[KVenom]

I have a 460 crate engine in my MKIII and I love it. All the torque you can ask for and very dependable. It's right at 500 HP and is very predictable. You can easily get to the spark plugs. The car handles like it's on rails. I do have the IRS and anti-sway bars. I do not have power steering but I believe it would be nice for parking as the steering is a bit heavy. Fuel mileage is really pretty good until put your foot into it. This would be an issue with any other engine. Would I build it again? Absolutely!

[bran3b]

My 460 is very drivable. The torque allows short shifting to keep RPMs down and extend mileage, on the other hand I can easily blow through a tank of gas if I drive a bit more aggressively. I did have an overheating problem that was eventually traced back to a fuel delivery issue and has since been resolved. On hotter days I try to keep it moving, sitting in traffic can be worrisome but it stays below 210. I have a carb but would recommend injection if possible. I am also running iron heads at 9.5:1 compression and think that I am pushing my luck a little but no detonation so far, I would prefer aluminum with heads to prevent this. The engine is heavy but the car still feels fairly balanced, aluminum would help that too.

[Bentheroofer]

Aloha, I'm fighting an overheating problem right now with my 460BB Hunter Cobra. I'm baffled. I replaced the fan with twins, put in a 160degree thermostat. Everything else seems fine. Ii am curious, what do you mean by a fuel delivery problem. Thanks, in advance. Ben

[Bentheroofer]

Sorry, new to board, I was replying to Bran 3B

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Bentheroofer

Aloha, I'm fighting an overheating problem right now with my 460BB Hunter Cobra. I'm baffled. I replaced the fan with twins, put in a 160 degree thermostat. Everything else seems fine. Ii am curious, what do you mean by a fuel delivery problem. Thanks, in advance. Ben

Check out the tech tips on pages 21-23 of this: https://stewartcomponents.com/wp/wp-...rt_catalog.pdf

BTW, an engine that's running too cold will suffer increased engine wear, deposits and emissions. It's not news that oil is also thicker when it's cool, so it needs to warm up to provide proper lubrication. Oil also needs to get hot enough to vapourize any moisture it collects. Here's a good article, including a chart of engine wear vs. temperature, that may have people yanking their 160 deg. thermostats in favour of 180 deg. ones: HOTRODSRJ’s COOLING TIPS Operating temperature vs power and longevity!

From the above article: "Years of research show use of 160 degree thermostats is way too low to be considered for performance or engine longevity. As the chart above illustrates, engine wear increased by DOUBLE at 160, than at 185 degrees."

If you're running EFI, you absolutely need to run the appropriate thermostat, or the temperature sensor(s) will read a cool engine and adjust the fuel/air mixture to compensate. It may even adjust timing - but I don't know.

Even if you're running a carburetor, the engine will take longer to get to proper operating temperature with a 160°F thermostat - if it gets there at all. Before I put the thermostat in mine (180°F high flow thermostat) I found the engine was slow to warm up. Worse, when the temperatures dipped the coolant temperature was peaking around 160-165°F on the highway.

Last year I installed an oil temperature gauge, and I can tell you the rise in oil temperature lags the coolant temperature by quite a bit. My coolant temperature is up to 180-190°F in a few minutes of driving, but it probably takes 15 minutes of driving before the oil temperature gets to 200°F, and 30 minutes in warm temperatures (e.g. 25°C / 77°F) before it gets to 220°F. It's a safe bet it would rarely hit 200°F with a 160°F thermostat.

I would HIGHLY recommend a high flow 180°F thermostat, if not higher.

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by Bentheroofer

Aloha, I'm fighting an overheating problem right now with my 460BB Hunter Cobra. I'm baffled. I replaced the fan with twins, put in a 160degree thermostat. Everything else seems fine. Ii am curious, what do you mean by a fuel delivery problem. Thanks, in advance. Ben

The 180 degree thermostat is a must make sure all the air that flows through the nose has to flow through the radiator. Look at a Cobra that has the engine oil cooler with that baffling all air has to go through the rad.
Getting all the air purged out is also a must, I added a brass purge valve to the thermostat neck. My car runs approx. 190 degrees all the time in all situations. Stop and go traffic it will sneak up slightly. Finally are you certain your radiator has the capacity to cool the 460?

[sspano01]

i have a 460, stroker to 521 inches, with aluminum heads and intake. fuel injection and 6-speed manual. i love the 521! idles great, sounds terrific, and has lots of power. a little too much for track days, but i love it!

just get good tires! avon tires are the best if you stay with 15 inches!

[xlr8tr]

Originally Posted by sspano01

i have a 460, stroker to 521 inches, with aluminum heads and intake. fuel injection and 6-speed manual. i love the 521! idles great, sounds terrific, and has lots of power. a little too much for track days, but i love it!

just get good tires! avon tires are the best if you stay with 15 inches!

Agreed big time on the tires, they are a safety item. I have the goodyear billboards, but had BFG t/a's before: night and day difference. Situations where the BFG's would spin (usually at all the wrong times) are now not an issue.

[D-CEL]

Yes the 385 series BB (429-460) will fit in an FFR and is a fantastic engine platform. Many great cylinder heads, inexpensive long stroke cranks and very strong factory blocks make it the best “HP per Dollar” big block.
First decide how much power you want and where you want to make it.
Here is a good solid street BB
2 bolt block bored to 4.390 with a 4.500 stroke cast crank would make 545 C.I.
At 10.5-1with a hydraulic roller cam and a set of P51 heads.

Should be plenty to scare the crap out of you and turn your tires into piles of smoldering, giggle inducing, black powder goodness!!~
a BIG drag radial might help.....

Jason

[Quintum]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Should be plenty to scare the crap out of you and turn your tires into piles of smoldering, giggle inducing, black powder goodness!!~
a BIG drag radial might help.....

Jason

Jason,

So when I go have my engine built. I'll be taking my lap top with me and I'll be showing the builder this very line, all the while saying "THATS WHAT I WANT!" and muttering "and if I keep my foot out of it, let it have some gas mileage please."

Dave

[KVenom]

Originally Posted by Quintum

Jason,

So when I go have my engine built. I'll be taking my lap top with me and I'll be showing the builder this very line, all the while saying "THATS WHAT I WANT!" and muttering "and if I keep my foot out of it, let it have some gas mileage please."

Dave

Zackly!

[Quintum]

Great input all.

As for the Tires, I've already done some searching and will be sticking with the 15 's. Looks like one of the main issues is weight. I've pm'd Keith, and that was one of his main issues as well. Not sure if I'll be doing much Track day stuff. And if I do it will not be on a competitive basis. I'm sure I'll hit the 1/4 track and see how it does there as well.

Thanks again for all the input. And if anyone comes up with something that was hard about their build regarding the 460 block I'd be interested to hear what it was.

Regards,
Dave

[mdross1]

Have had our 460 powered car for nearly 20 yrs and it still gives me serious thrill rides when rowing through the gears.Tires are very important these 385 motors are torque monsters even mildly built.We have undercar exhaust with chambered muffs that sound incredible.Milage? never really cared because of the fun factor but a few years back regeared the 9" to 3:73 and installed a Tremec TKO when clicking into 5th rpm's drop almost 1k,for excellent cruising.Enjoy opening the hood and hearing the Wow from most that want to see.

[Quintum]

Originally Posted by mdross1

Have had our 460 powered car for nearly 20 yrs and it still gives me serious thrill rides when rowing through the gears.Tires are very important these 385 motors are torque monsters even mildly built.We have undercar exhaust with chambered muffs that sound incredible.Milage? never really cared because of the fun factor but a few years back regeared the 9" to 3:73 and installed a Tremec TKO when clicking into 5th rpm's drop almost 1k,for excellent cruising.Enjoy opening the hood and hearing the Wow from most that want to see.

mdross the only reason that I've brought up mileage thing was, I was wondering how many stops between L.A. and Phx I would have to make. Granted depending on the tank size... yada yada yada.

Everyone, thank you once again for your input. I must say that they have all been positive results. Are you sure that there isn't anything wrong with working on, fitting, any adjustments that need to be made? (granted the entire job is gonna be one big adjustment).

Warm regards to all.
Dave

[Silversmith]

Quintum, Go to "popualrhotrodding.com" no need to suscribe. Rite under the big yellow Hot Rodding letters you will see the site tool bar. Left to right it will read "Home, Technical, Event coverage, etc." Next, enter into the "search popular hot rodding" box located to the right of the big yellow Hot Rodding letters this caption. "Building a Big-Block Ford Using Shelf Parts-Ah Rats!" That should put you to the artical & the 460 build sheet. The artical/spec build sheet is from the June 2009 issue of popular hot rodding, written by Stephen Kim. I placed the artical on my fav's list & printed out a copy. The cost of the build in 09 was $9,600. It is most likely close to 12K by now. Still, I know of no other engine producing that much dependable juice, for that little money, even today! If you have any trouble locating the artical let me know & we'll try another method. Enjoy M8!

WELCOME TO THE ADDICTION THERE IS NO CURE

[Quintum]

Thanks Silversmith,

I went ahead and got the url and thought I'd just put it out there for everyone.
Building A Big-Block Ford Using Shelf Parts - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine

Originally Posted by Silversmith

Quintum, Go to "popualrhotrodding.com" no need to suscribe. Rite under the big yellow Hot Rodding letters you will see the site tool bar. Left to right it will read "Home, Technical, Event coverage, etc." Next, enter into the "search popular hot rodding" box located to the right of the big yellow Hot Rodding letters this caption. "Building a Big-Block Ford Using Shelf Parts-Ah Rats!" That should put you to the artical & the 460 build sheet. The artical/spec build sheet is from the June 2009 issue of popular hot rodding, written by Stephen Kim. I placed the artical on my fav's list & printed out a copy. The cost of the build in 09 was $9,600. It is most likely close to 12K by now. Still, I know of no other engine producing that much dependable juice, for that little money, even today! If you have any trouble locating the artical let me know & we'll try another method. Enjoy M8!

WELCOME TO THE ADDICTION THERE IS NO CURE