385 Engines and Automatics

[Mr427]

HI: I have been looking around for what is available for the 429-460 in the way of automatics.

Since the mid eighties and until Ford stopped using the 460 in its truck line, there were some four speed autos available with these engines, some of them quite sturdy units.

Have these been installed in any muscle cars for street use and how reliable are they, like the E4OD or others? Who builds them, if any and what prices dothey go for?

I am tired of driving at 65 MPH with the engine giong the rounds at over 3000 rpm.

[Tom Wells]

Hi Mr427,

I took a different approach (so what else is new?)

I use a C6 and a 2.88 axle ratio. With 315/35-17s (diameter 25.7") on the rear. I tach 2450 at 65 mph, and can still spin the tires at any speed.

If you find an OD trans (E4OD, 4R700 or whatever) that can fit - i.e., not excessively long - and can stand up to some serious HP, say north of 500, please let us know!

If I could have got a lower ratio, say 2.75, I'd have done that!

BTW don't forget that the torque converter is a significant part of the equation. I use an EDGE with a low (~2200) stall speed.

Regards,

Tom

[cobrashoch]

I agree with Tom on this one. Let us know if youy can figure out somthing that works and is inexpensive. This is a VERY common theme on the 385 forum,
www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/85220
I am in the process of switching over to a Coan approved case glide on my hot rod. As is always the case the most inexpensive way is to use/modify what you allready have though.
cobrashock

[Mr427]

Ron, Tom:

Thanks for your input. This transmission issue is a serious matter for those who do not want to bother with a manual transmission. (I did read the accounts on the transmission forum about the Jerico transmission and others, so I do not want that stuff)

Still, I want to be able to have a relatively fresh rearend ratio. Anything from a 3.50 to 4.11 on a mild to hot street car. I do have a 3.50 ratio and a C-6 behind my SCJ at 470CID. It has solid lifters and a lot of other stuff. I drive this car whenever I can because I like to. That is the point. But long distance driving is pain in the neck, literally. At 65 - 70 mph I am runing the engine into the 3500 rpm range which is about 700 rpms higher than I should. The car is built to handle much higher speeds than that.

At this time cruising at over 100 mph is just a dream. I have driven on the Autobahns in central Europe and the case is such that if you can´t run at 100++ mph for days on end, you get honked at. This is my point. So the ideal is a 3.50 to 4.11 with a 40 reduction in high gear, like the AOD gives.

I have read inputs from people who claim the do drive or want to drive their 650hp Cobras with ,700 lift, cross country and no sweat. Yeah, right. Wake up and smell the pizza, boys. It is not going to happen. This reminds me of a guy I spoke to in New York once, about a 1969 Dodge Charger 440 Six Pack that I was thinking about byuing. He said he had to sell the car because his wife got tired of having a mechanic live at their house the whole time.

The problem with these overdrive transmissions from Ford is exactly the same as what happened with the Pinto. Remember when Ford got sued for millions over exploding fuel tanks. It is really an abstract, surreal feeling you get when you hear how these decisions get made by those ivy leagers on the 14th floor.

It goes like this: "Well Mr. Iacocca, our analysis of this situation indicates that if we sell 1.6 million Pintos during its production run, we will have an extra margin of 385 million dollars from saving eleven dollars on each one by placing the fuel tank under the back seat. We know we are going to be sued for only 250 million over deaths and destruction so we will still profit" Says Lee: "Build that car"

Same with the transmission issue. Many transmission specialists have solved the design discrepancy, flaw, if you will, inexpensively and efficiently.

When I bought my first Ford, brand new with the E4OD, I almost instantly noticed that the car had a slight vibration at exactly the speed that we all like to cruise at, 65-75MPH. Now, I went to my dealer and explained the problem. At first stonewalling, then a tacit consent that maybe there was something wrong. Then the tires got replaced and then the wheels. Then the wheels again, because their tire guys scratched the coating off the fancy aluminum wheels when they replaced the tires the first time. Then the dirveshaft, then U-joints and then the driveshaft support. Then I wanted to sell them my car again, but you know how that works. They all said they would work and work and work with me, because I was so important.

Finally, I gave up and went to see the service manager who had flown C-47´s in Viet Nam and he explained to me how they knew if they hit bullseye with the 55mm Gatling they had sticking out the side of the old 47. The color of the smoke told them every time.

Then he told me that the clutchpack in the overdrive transmissions from the Ford Motor Company vibrated at a certain speed. They had no idea why. Well, years went by and I got rid of the vibrator and worked on my other cars.

When I went to my transmission guy to pick up the C-6 for my Galaxie FE, I noticed that he had an E4OD out of an E-350 HD Econoline on his bench. It was not a routine build. This transmission was in shreds and I wanted to know why.

He explained to me how these transmissions failed after a predestined time span because Ford had saved about 35 dollars on the main clutches in their new line of transmissions by using copper bushings instead of Torrington bearings or other equivalent bearings that would stop the shafts from counterrotating inside the bushings once they had been broken in during the first thousands of miles. So there it was.

All he did was measure the outside diameter on the shafts and find bearings at the local parts store, bore the transmission housing so the bearings would press fit and bingo, the transmission flaw was fixed.

This is probably why there is so little real discussion about these transmissions being used in early muscle cars or street machines.

So, the question I really should have asked in the first place was this exact matter. Has anyone solved this problem commercially and made these transmissions reliable and a pleasure to use like the case is with GM´s 700R case.

Secondly, for anyone who wants to use the E40D there is the issue of electronic governors, computer equipment and such that is needed to make it work. I saw this problem solved with a small computer circuit in off road cars with sub 5 - gear ratios and dual transfer cases, where the transmission was fooled into thinking everything was normal.

I will research this matter further as I am building a 474 CID engine from a 1970 N-code 429 with a bit of spice in it.

[cobrashoch]

Lima - After reading your post above I would say you've hit the same wall I hit a few years back. Looking ALL the stuff over I could find a few years ago I went with a Coan turbo 400 with a first gear change. Mind you this was not a race car($$$) based tranny, just a modified street tranny. Wasn't happy. I finally said the hell with it and bought a Coan glide with an approved case. A Gear Venders overdrive unit will go into it somtime this summer. But I'm lucky. I have a 98 inch wheelbase car and I have the room for that box. Most Cobras don't.
The fact that cars are engineered by committees has made me mad for several years. G.M. is by far the worst in that regard. Keep a pluggin'. I hear that Art Carr is back at it again somewhere in California. Maybe he can straighten up a E4OD for you. A vist to Coan in Kokomo Ind. is just a trip up the pike from you. Maybe they can figure out something off the wall that will work for you. BTW- I get the feeling that you would be happy with a lock up converter tranny if you could get the bugs worked out. I personally have ruled out ALL lockup converter trannys because you can't get smaller converters with them. Maybe some day smaller converters will be in front of those boxs.
A modified C-4 with a Gear Venders OD would be a very trick piece for 3200 lbs car in my mind too. Anyway, Good Luck!
cobrashock