Cam Choice?

[CarsByCarl]

Originally Posted by Silverback51

Looking for some input on this.

The current engine has a blown headgasket, so as long has I have to pull the engine (it has head studs, not bolts) I'm going to slip in a new 514 crate motor. Anyway, that's the excuse I gave the wife, and I sticking to it unless I can come up with a better one.

The current engine is a 466BB with a Crane Cams 359351 hydraulic roller. Not a bad cam, but I want something with a little more lope to it. Spec's on the Crane cam is .590/.614 lift, 228/238 duration.

The hydraulic flat tappet cam that comes with the 514 seems pretty nice, but I would really like a hydraulic roller. Has anyone replaced there stock cam with a roller a hydraulic roller?

Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks

There's really no performance advantage to a hyd roller and as long as you use the proper oil with the flat tappet it'll actually be more durable than a roller. If you want something with more lope at idle you'd be just as well off going to a different flat tappet cam.

[fordracer]

Originally Posted by CarsByCarl

There's really no performance advantage to a hyd roller and as long as you use the proper oil with the flat tappet it'll actually be more durable than a roller.

I have to disagree with you on this. Ford has been running roller lifters since 1985 and I believe GM started in 1986. If durability were an issue the manufacturers wouldn't use them in 100,000+ mile motors.

As for performance, just the reduced friction and resulting oil temp is enough for me. Also a roller follows the cam precisely allowing for faster opening ramps.

[CarsByCarl]

Originally Posted by fordracer

I have to disagree with you on this. Ford has been running roller lifters since 1985 and I believe GM started in 1986. If durability were an issue the manufacturers wouldn't use them in 100,000+ mile motors.

As for performance, just the reduced friction and resulting oil temp is enough for me. Also a roller follows the cam precisely allowing for faster opening ramps.

Well, a stock roller cam with low duration and low lift isn't subject to the same abuse as a performance roller with long duration, more aggresive lobe profiles, and higher lifts. Anyone expecting 100,000+ mile durability from a 385 series with a roller cam of any kind is going to be sorely dissapointed.

The biggest problems with hyd rollers in the 385 series are the weight of the lifter itself, and the undesirable pushrod angles resulting from the taller lifter. Some people run them without any problems, but as an engine builder it's not something I'm going to recommend to anyone. At the end of the day, If you're looking for more performance than a hyd flat tappet can offer, a hyd roller is not the answer in my opinion.

[fordracer]

Originally Posted by CarsByCarl

Well, a stock roller cam with low duration and low lift isn't subject to the same abuse as a performance roller with long duration, more aggresive lobe profiles, and higher lifts. Anyone expecting 100,000+ mile durability from a 385 series with a roller cam of any kind is going to be sorely dissapointed.

Two maybe three words, Corvette Z06 and Viper. Both production based and making well over 500 hp. This cannot be done with displacement alone. Corvette, 505hp@6300rpm with a bore x stroke of 4.13 x 4.00. Viper, 600hp@6100rpm with a bore x stroke of 4.06 x 3.96. That's some mighty high hp numbers AND rpm for a 427 and 505 cu/in. without the help of a mighty stout cam

Originally Posted by CarsByCarl

The biggest problems with hyd rollers in the 385 series are the weight of the lifter itself, and the undesirable pushrod angles resulting from the taller lifter. Some people run them without any problems, but as an engine builder it's not something I'm going to recommend to anyone. At the end of the day, If you're looking for more performance than a hyd flat tappet can offer, a hyd roller is not the answer in my opinion.

I've done a few flat cam to hyd. roller conversions and an invaluable tool in my box is a pushrod length checker. I trust you do a sweep on the valve stem to check the rocker arm contact area?? If the lifter is too tall, use a shorter pushrod. This is another plus in the roller hat in that a shorter pushrod flexes less.


Please dude, I'm not picking on you personally. If you have been in business for any length of time you KNOW how customers are.

Here's the scenario:

YOU SAY, "Now, mr. customer, be sure to add a bottle of GM Engine Oil Suppliment at every oil change to your 460 and your cam won't flatten a lobe and it will make 500hp forever."

THEY HEAR, " BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH your 460 BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH will make 500 hp forever."

I am finished, you have your mind set and I cannot change it. How about this, throw a hyd. roller in one of your engines and see what happens. I'm not talking a radical change, roughly the same duration, lift, lobe center and separation.

[Tom Wells]

Carl,

Please don't tell my 521 anything. It has the Crane 359351 w/hydraulic rollers, and has been 20,000++ miles on the street, and many many hot laps at Roebling Road, Sebring, Summit Point and so on without a cough.

Gosh I hope it can't read this thread!

Tom

[CarsByCarl]

Originally Posted by Tom Wells

Carl,

Please don't tell my 521 anything. It has the Crane 359351 w/hydraulic rollers, and has been 20,000++ miles on the street, and many many hot laps at Roebling Road, Sebring, Summit Point and so on without a cough.

Gosh I hope it can't read this thread!

Tom

Glad to hear you haven't had any problems Tom. Hope you plan to check the valve spring pressures regularly and change them out when needed over the life of the engine if you aren't already.

[Silverback51]

I want to thank everyone for their input, it's all considered and valued.

Differences of opinions are what helps others think about things and hopefully learn. It would be a very boring world if we were all the same.

I have learned a lot by the input I have received on this thread, and on this site. While I have had lots of high performance vehicles in my past, this is the first Ford 385 series I have owned. My true love was BB Chevies. Am I banned yet? No, guess it's okay.

So once again, thank you to everyone that replied.

[CarsByCarl]

Originally Posted by fordracer

Two maybe three words, Corvette Z06 and Viper. Both production based and making well over 500 hp. This cannot be done with displacement alone. Corvette, 505hp@6300rpm with a bore x stroke of 4.13 x 4.00. Viper, 600hp@6100rpm with a bore x stroke of 4.06 x 3.96. That's some mighty high hp numbers AND rpm for a 427 and 505 cu/in. without the help of a mighty stout cam



I've done a few flat cam to hyd. roller conversions and an invaluable tool in my box is a pushrod length checker. I trust you do a sweep on the valve stem to check the rocker arm contact area?? If the lifter is too tall, use a shorter pushrod. This is another plus in the roller hat in that a shorter pushrod flexes less.


Please dude, I'm not picking on you personally. If you have been in business for any length of time you KNOW how customers are.

Here's the scenario:

YOU SAY, "Now, mr. customer, be sure to add a bottle of GM Engine Oil Suppliment at every oil change to your 460 and your cam won't flatten a lobe and it will make 500hp forever."

THEY HEAR, " BLAH, BLAH BLAH, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH your 460 BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH will make 500 hp forever."

I am finished, you have your mind set and I cannot change it. How about this, throw a hyd. roller in one of your engines and see what happens. I'm not talking a radical change, roughly the same duration, lift, lobe center and separation.

We all have different opinions I guess. My opinions are based on actual experience with the 385 series. Building 385 series engines is what I do for a living, and yes I'm familiar with how to set up proper valvetrain geometry. It gets done on every engine that goes out my door.

A Z06 and a Viper are not the same as a 385 series. But I guess you wouldn't know that.....

Originally Posted by fordracer, in the FE vs. 385 thread

I have no experience with either engine, my gut says the FE would walk away from a 385.

The original poster here asked a question and I gave my opinion. It's different than yours. Lets leave it at that.