How much of a market for smaller budget rebuild engines?

[SPF1061]

Originally Posted by lnfletcher

I have found that a lot of people do their research at work were the social sites are blocked and don't bother to look it up at home.

There's one way to save money on a motor - let the boss pay for the research!

[blykins]

Originally Posted by lnfletcher

Just my 2 cents but if you could put some examples of your builds on your webpage instead of facebook, with prices that you can build these for would go a long way in selling your engines.
I have found that a lot of people do their research at work were the social sites are blocked and don't bother to look it up at home.

Good point. I have been trying to move some data over to the website, along with some pictures and have gotten a few on there, but not very many. I'm not very web site savvy.

[patrickt]

I've said this before, I honestly don't know how anybody makes any real money building Cobras or engines for them. They certainly deserve to, but I don't see how they can with the margins as apparently razor thin as they seem to be....

[blykins]

How thin do you think they are?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

How thin do you think they are?

Thin enough that you can't comfortably afford to buy a CSX/Kirkham/ERA of your own from the profits.

[blykins]

Not from one engine sale, no.

Who says that I want a CSX/Kirkham/ERA of my own? I've owned a Cobra....that's not really my bag anymore.

[patrickt]

No, I wasn't talking about you, I was talking 'generically.' I just don't think there is significant money to be made in the Cobra or engine building markets.

EDIT -- Of course that excludes somebody like Roush, etc.

[IndyCobra]

If you want to sell without brick and mortar, a sophisticated web presence is critical. Easy to use, easy to understand, full of pictures, easy to order etc. If you don't have the expertise, hire it.

People will pay for quality, service, knowledge, and ease of use. It's not always about commodity pricing.

[Jerry Clayton]

Brent

For your ype of operation----you more or less just have to cover the costs of ????? You are putting together parts that someone else has machined????So in reality---you source the parts, have someone else do the block machining, and then assemble the engines in your spare time????

So you can do it cheaper than a shop that has overhead for building, property taxes, insurance, haz mat disposal, machinery costs/maintenance and employee wages,benefits.

What kind of business model is that??? or is it a hobby model???

I seem to remember that the cobra you were building was located several miles from you and that it didn't go very well so you gave up on it???

Best of luck for your parts business ------

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by IndyCobra

If you want to sell without brick and mortar, a sophisticated web presence is critical. Easy to use, easy to understand, full of pictures, easy to order etc. If you don't have the expertise, hire it.

People will pay for quality, service, knowledge, and ease of use. It's not always about commodity pricing.

Randy's absolutely right. A lot of the folks that have the ability to pay for your best work literally "live on the 'net." He speakum with silver tongue....

[azfordman]

Just my 2 cents....The first thing I did when reading your post was go to your web site. I agree with Randy...if you are trying to market nationally, you really need to put some effort into your web site. If I were looking for a motor, based on your web site, I would not give you a second thought. I am computer illiterate, but I did my best to make the best looking web site for my business. (You can PM me if you have any questions on how I set mine up.) Back to your original question, I do feel there is a market for what your are looking at doing. In order to market to this customer base you will to a degree need to "dumb down" your sales pitch. A technical list of the parts you use (like the post on the 351 you just put up...400HP 351 Ready to Install) won't help you much with these customers. I am not saying eliminate the list....but to a motor novice like myself descriptions like Clevite rod bearings and ARP balancer bolts....you may as well be speaking Latin, because it means nothing to me. Perhaps a paragraph or two, "My motors are better than stock because xxxx, produce more power because xxxx and last longer under abuse because xxxx." If I were to replace a motor in one of my "toys" I would want something better than a stock crate motor, something that has been hot rodded, but would never drop 20 grand on an engine, short of a original 427 s/o or something of that nature.

[blykins]

I guess those issues are the crux of selling an engine: advertising and marketing.

I'll look more into working on the website. I guess I don't have much of a creative mind when it comes to that sorta thing.

As for listing each and every part, I myself think that's very important. There are so many engines out there that are offered and you have no idea what's inside or how they were machined/assembled. I guess a list like that also gives the buyer knowledge of what all they'd be getting....."Hey, I thought this would come with a water neck and thermostat, but it doesn't...!!"

[patrickt]

Brent, we love you. The last thing we want to see is for you not to make money. That said, engineers do not make the best salesmen, nor the best businessmen. It's best to keep them locked up in the back of the shop, fed well, and paid well -- and don't let them talk to the public. Of course I'm joking a bit, but not completely. Remember my balancer? I tried my best to give you my business, and I was happy to pay you a premium, and what happened? Out of the kindness of your heart you ended up making a sale for Keith Craft! And you didn't even take a dime for all you did! Now that was nice. Very, very, nice. I appreciate it; you're a sweetheart. But that's not the way you make money. Trust me. That's not the way you make money. Quit thinking like an engineer. You can turn that part of your brain on when you strip down to your shorts, crank up Iron Butterfly, and break out the torque wrench.

[azfordman]

Originally Posted by blykins

I'll look more into working on the website. I guess I don't have much of a creative mind when it comes to that sorta thing.

You don't have to be fancy and it's not critical to be creative. The best thing you can do is spend some time online as a customer. Set aside some time and go "shopping". It does not matter if you are looking at engines, garden supplies, or tee shirts. Just look at other web sites...and ask yourself as a customer...what do I like about this site, is it easy to understand? Is there enough info about the product? Did it answer all of my questions? What did you not like or find aggravating? What was missing? Just try to apply what you learn to your own site. Also, ask friends/family to look at your site and ask their opinions.

[blykins]

I'm not cut out to be a cut-throat, but I treat people the way I like to be treated. Sometimes you have to give a little to get a little in return a little bit down the road. If you help people (especially when you help people save money), they remember that. Or at least I do.

With that being said, I think you're over-analyzing how much money is made in an engine. My labor is worth $x an hour and I charge for that. I'm also warehouse distributor and jobber for different companies/manufacturers, so I don't have to pay retail. That's the way it is with every engine builder and car builder. Also, without 10 people working for me, health insurance to pay, blah blah blah, my overhead isn't that much.

I enjoy what I do.

Now, would you rather have a salesman building your engine, or would you rather have an engineer who is completely OCD about details?

And yes, I'm a sweetheart.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

I enjoy what I do.

Now, would you rather have a salesman building your engine, or would you rather have an engineer who is completely OCD about details?

And yes, I'm a sweetheart.

Now I don't know what business AZFordMan is in, but just imagine if you worked for him and he came in one day and asked you what you had been up to and you told him "Well, Pat called up and wanted to buy stuff from us, even wanted to pay us extra, but I was able to save him time and money by pointing him to our competition."

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Thin enough that you can't comfortably afford to buy a CSX/Kirkham/ERA of your own from the profits.

There he goes again. Slamming the Unique's, SPF's, BDR's and FFR's.

Sophisticated and beautiful websites are the "cat's meow" and all, but personally, word of mouth and personal recommendations work as good or better for me.

There's several guys that I know in the SF Bay Area, who by word of mouth, do a very nice business building various types of engines.

[blykins]

Well, that's the perks of owning your own business. No boss to answer to.

It happens all the time if you pay attention. Try to find someone that's got an OE set of drip rails for an FE. If a customer is really needing a set, I'm not going to bust my hindend to find a set, but I'll probably point them to Barry or Dennis Carrico...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

There's several guys that I know in the SF Bay Area, who by word of mouth, do a very nice business building various types of engines.

But are they building engines for non-Bay area folks?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

But are they building engines for non-Bay area folks?

Yes, but word of mouth can extend to bigger businesses too. KC and BL have good reputations as well as Tom Lucas, Gessford and Barry R.