B2 Motorsports - Cliff Rosson All-Aluminum 331 SBF Build - Page 8

blykins · #**141** (**permalink**) 10-26-2013, 05:39 AM

Well, the printer ran out of color ink.....but I got the numbers.

Pulls started at 4500, but you still had 330 lb-ft there. Nice curve if you look at the numbers collectively.

ERA2076 · #**142** (**permalink**) 10-26-2013, 02:26 PM

Well it's probably not for the vast majority, but it suits me great. I cannot wait to run it.

If we run to 7

1st => 53
2nd => 53 mph @ 4600 rpm (360 lbft & rising) => 80 mph@7k
3rd => 80 mph @ 4700 rpm (373 lbft & rising) =>120 mph@7k
4th = > 120 mph @ 5400 rpm (407 lbft & rising) => 155 mph@7k

Pretty sure we will have serious chassis and aero trouble here (if we have not already LOL!!!)

With enough nads, car, and road

5th = > 155 @ 5725 (405 lbft) the first time we have shifted into falling torque. We are standing on a ton of it, but areo is really stomping hard (have some plans for this). Work per time is - oh my! - all the way to 7.

That thing must have been screaming

I can't wait to hear it (and weigh it).

We are trying to get the car to 2350 with fuel & driver. This configuration would yield 5.0lb/hp. Some aero work and we have a rocket

With very similar gearing, this engine in 3rd, does what my 03 does in 4th

Plan on tracking 1500 to 2000 per year - are you good @ 7K? Maybe set the shift light at 68? It will never be drag raced, not even from a traffic light.

Chas -would you expect any hood interference running the 1" spacer?

Great call Brent - very happy.

x-chr

blykins · #**143** (**permalink**) 10-26-2013, 03:51 PM

I would shift at 6800-7000. The hp curve is pretty flat from 6500-up, so anywhere you shift, you're still going to fall back into some power. The bottom end is solid, so if you feel like you have to string it out a few hundred rpm past that, you're fine. We pulled it to 7200 on each pull on the dyno, and yes it did sound good up there. I'll send you a video.

When you get really serious about racing, send it back and we'll put some compression into it...this is an easy 525-530 hp engine with the right combo of parts.

Still though, with a mismatched cam, and pump gas compression, 1.43 hp/ci isn't anything to sneeze about.

Run 110 gas in it, and run Brad Penn oil in it. A 40-50 weight oil on the hot side is what I would use. It takes this little motor forever to get up to operating temperature, so be VERY ginger with it until it gets up to oil temp. The main bearing clearances are set at around .0017-.0018 so it's a little on the tight side until it gets hot.

I installed the pilot bearing. Left the thermostat out, but will ship it with the engine. Don't forget to run thread sealant on the flywheel bolts....they hit oil.

ERA Chas · #**144** (**permalink**) 10-26-2013, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA2076

Chas -would you expect any hood interference running the 1" spacer?

With an 8.2 deck I don't think so but I'm sure you could shave .250" and not notice it in the power.
Brent's concern about getting up to temps is critical. I'd get an electric pan blanket to warm the oil while transporting and waiting between laps.
You will sh!t yourself if the straights allow 155-I did because all I felt was enormous wind resistance from the windshield and the nose up in the air.
Back off and the straps will bite you. And what ever you do, don't flat-shift 3-4 or 4-5. The ass end will change lanes on you.
How do I know????????????

PS-Let Brent get you up to 12.5:1 on the next tear-down...

blykins · #**145** (**permalink**) 10-26-2013, 05:24 PM

Wouldn't be able to cut this one down. It's a tapered 1", 4 hole into open. I'm with Chas though, I don't foresee any issue with it. The Victor Jr. intake isn't that tall, and it's a short deck block.

ERA2076 · #**146** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 11:15 AM

The lower gearing of the T5 in 1st and 2nd just might work. I ran it with the T56 gearing on my 03 and we would be dropping below 4500.

Side note - I don't understand the infatuation with a T56 in a Cobra roadster. That thing is a big, heavy, mean, SOB. Works well if you drive it hard enough.

Chas your comments and warnings are noted. I can see where one could really screw up.

Off to breakfast

chr

blykins · #**147** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 11:48 AM

Nice curves...

I could have got you a broader torque curve, but I used a cam for webers. :-)

I think you oughta sell the webers and use part of the money for new pistons, port matching the intake, and a different cam. ;-)

ERA2076 · #**148** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 01:56 PM

You are too concerned with the badest mofo out there. All that power does not mean squat if you do not have an operator that knows how to use it. I am building a (used to be

) street mannered Webered FIA. There is more than enough there to get into serious trouble. I am a very inexperienced track driver. If after some time it doesn't make me smile we will address it, but most likely in a different car.

This thing looks like a blast to me. I can't wait to learn it. There is something (a lot) to be said for overall balance - Remington could not stand the 427 (couldn't stand the 289 when he first got it) and it made 425. We are 50 hp north of that in an engine they only wished they could have had. An aluminum Shelby 331 is marketed at 475 - we are right there - and it does not have the components you put in this one - be happy.

Ship it with the spacer. I'll get some track time on this setup. When the time comes we will chassis dyno this setup on the same dyno the Webs are set up on. Then we will have a direct comparison and I will get to drive both.

I saw an ex-indy driver run a race prepped 1275 cc Sprite at PIR earlier in the month. It was the most beautiful thing to see him drive it. There was all kinds of high HP cars there and he made all of it look silly.

You've done a great job - lap times tell the story - we'll see.

400 lb of torque @ 5000 rpm in a 90" 2300 lb car for a novice - really?

It's hard to spend money with you if I am dead.

I think it looks great - Ship it

chr

ERA2076 · #**149** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 01:58 PM

oh - and we'll set the shift light at 7.

chr

ERA Chas · #**150** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA2076

All that power does not mean squat if you do not have an operator that knows how to use it.

Cliff,
We already gave you credit for that by the sophisticated chassis changes you worked-out with Putnam.
Yes, balance is everything but you can have killer lap times with experience that will come and 500+HP...

ERA2076 · #**151** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by era chas

yes, balance is everything but you can have killer lap times with experience that will come and 500+hp...

.

blykins · #**152** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 04:08 PM

Ah, dearest Cliff.....

This is actually an engine builder's nightmare. Being limited by the customer and not his own ability. I would always rather the car be slow because of the car's setup or the driver's prowess....not by the engine.

If we hadn't went about this totally backwards, I probably would have declined....hahaha

I built a 408 inch LS engine for a guy that wanted to road race. He insisted that I use the cam that he wanted. I told him to come and get the parts as I wasn't interested. If an engine is a turd, I want it to be because of my own stupidity and not because a customer picked the wrong parts.

We ended up using my cam and in his first road race, he placed 3rd in a field of 80-some cars.

So, let's keep the "tag" off the engine for awhile. I have a feeling that you'll get really used to the car pretty soon and I don't want everyone to know that you need more horsey-power.

blykins · #**153** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 04:18 PM

BTW, did you get my email on the fuel pump? Best case scenario would be an electric pump with a regulator, but a good high flow mechanical pump with a regulator would be adequate.

ERA Chas · #**154** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 04:46 PM

Am I spending your $$ too freely Cliff??

ERA2076 · #**155** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

BTW, did you get my email on the fuel pump? Best case scenario would be an electric pump with a regulator, but a good high flow mechanical pump with a regulator would be adequate.

No - I have not seen that one yet. Mechanical seems best - it seems I read the Webers work well with mechanical. I'll have to research that.

Rick Parker · #**156** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 06:08 PM

Mechanical pump with low pressure Holley Regulator works great, no issues 4 years.

ERA2076 · #**157** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Am I spending your $$ too freely Cliff??

nah - if I thought I was ready, I'd do it in a heart beat.

Down the road and Govco has not taken control of us peeing, I may look to leverage this one and the 03 up to a GT40. I have always wanted to try one.

Drop a high strung, light weight job in there and hall ass. I ran one down at the last track day and was able to force a big mistake. It was very slick and he was not at all comfortable. Broke my heart to have a Mustang passing that beautiful machine.

Brent can pull out all the stops and decide how to fuel it too

I'll smash it before I let a Mustang pass it. I don't care how wet it is.

ERA2076 · #**158** (**permalink**) 10-27-2013, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

Mechanical pump with low pressure Holley Regulator works great, no issues 4 years.

Thanks Rick - we have that regulator in a pile of parts.

blykins · #**159** (**permalink**) 10-28-2013, 03:00 AM

For race cars, I really prefer electric pumps with an inertia switch...just in case you roll the thing over, it can't keep pumping fuel all over the place. It's also easier to fill the float bowls and check everything out without the engine running. We use an electric pump on the dyno for most of those same reasons.

With that being said, a mechanical pump is pretty simple....

Either would be good as long as the flow is there. Gotta have enough of it to keep it from starving for gas.

ERA2076 · #**160** (**permalink**) 10-28-2013, 11:52 PM

I ran the power curve thru a simulator for optimizing shift points based on maximizing the area under the curve. Surprise - run it to red line

It moved 3rd up the curve and 4th & 5th down. Moving 4th down we get 700 rpm of torque >= 400.

5th gets 350 rpm. Not a bad way to start out in 5th - not sure how we will ever get to try.

I cannot wait to shift to 4th.