[Dangerous poll #2] Who played the most important role in the Cobra?

[Steve Cassani]

Alan Turner

Rinsey Mills, AC Cobra-The truth Behind theAnglo-American Legend- tells of Turner's role in the organization. Mills' account of Turner's continuing work to modify the Tojeiro chassis to accept a variety of engines leaves me convinced that the Hurlock brothers accepted Shelby's proposal on the strength of Turner's assurance that installing a 221 cubic inch 3.6 litres), compact V8 would be just another step, not differing in any important respect from the changes he had successfuly engineered since 1953. Keep in mind here that the Hurlocks were nearly bankrupt. Had Turner foreseen a need to modify the chassis in ways that did not build on what he had already achieved, the resulting added cost of redesign and manufacture would have killed the project.

At the time of Shelby's first visit to AC, the company had an inventory of chassis', suspension parts and all the other stuff, anticipating continued production of the Bristol and Rudspeed Ace. None of these bits could be tossed out, nor could any be modified, short of what the company had done to accomodate the Bristol engine. Suppliers, too, were locked in and some were disputing untimely payments for work already delivered to AC.

Turner assured the owners of AC that Shelby had a new idea which offerred a familiar and easily accomodated approach to continuing production, the sort of thing the company had managed sucessfully since they bought the original chassis design. Had Turner determined a need for heavier guage chassis tubes or a truly independent suspension, the Hurlocks would have had no choice but to defer to their engineer's advice and thank Shelby for his interest in the company.

[CBattaglia]

Carroll had the foresight to hire a guy like Ken Miles and assemble a winning team. He may have achieved his goals with another team?? (not to take away anything form Miles of course).

When you are the boss, you are only as good as the people you have around you.

[Historybuff]

When Shelby brought the first prototype to Dearborn
and presented it to a few Ford brass, it was Lee Iacocca
who was impressed with his zeal and said "yes" and got him the first
$25,000 which allowed Shelby to order car no. 2. So although all the other people were important, without Ford's backing the Cobra would have been a one off car. Iacocca eventually got so much publicity re the Mustang success (cover of TIME magazine, etc.) that Henry Ford II summoned him to his office and fired him on the spot

[YerDugliness]

I am NOT a fan of ol' Shel.....think he's a liar and a con-artist who had a good idea, although not an original one, as people were doing engine swaps LONG before Shelby dreamed up the idea of putting a small Ford V-8 into a Brittish sports car. However, without Shelby's "dream" and con-man work to get that first one to Iacocca, there would never have been that "yes" answer.

I hate to give credit for ANYTHING to Shelby, wish he and his lawsuits against various replica manufacturers and associated websites would just GO AWAY (that's a nicer way to put it than "Eat #### and Die", isn't it?), but in this case IMHO he deserves the credit for putting the effort into the whole sham--turned out pretty well for him, didn't it?

Cheers from Dugly

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

I am NOT a fan of ol' Shel.....think he's a liar and a con-artist who had a good idea, although not an original one, as people were doing engine swaps LONG before Shelby dreamed up the idea of putting a small Ford V-8 into a Brittish sports car. However, without Shelby's "dream" and con-man work to get that first one to Iacocca, there would never have been that "yes" answer.

I hate to give credit for ANYTHING to Shelby, wish he and his lawsuits against various replica manufacturers and associated websites would just GO AWAY (that's a nicer way to put it than "Eat #### and Die", isn't it?), but in this case IMHO he deserves the credit for putting the effort into the whole sham--turned out pretty well for him, didn't it?

Cheers from Dugly

Think about it this way. If Shelby hadn't done it, would this place exist today? NOT. The rest of it is an episode of Survivor. And the Cobra would be a Berkeley.

[YerDugliness]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Think about it this way. If Shelby hadn't done it, would this place exist today? NOT. The rest of it is an episode of Survivor. And the Cobra would be a Berkeley.

Yep, Tony......I agree. Like I said, as much as I hate to give ol' Shel credit for it, I ended up voting for him in the poll. It was his "intellectual property" long before that became a legal concept.....it was his idea and he lied to both Ford and A/C to get the parts to make the first Cobras, lied to the press and had finished cars repainted so that it would look like he had completed more than he actually had. If he were trying to run his business that way today, he'd probably be sued by the Attorneys General of every state in which he worked.

In the end, though, without the idea (who knows, maybe others were toying with the same combo, too), this forum and the entire Cobra (and, perhaps, replicar) industry might well not exist. Have to give him some credit, as much as I hate to do so. He got my vote......damnit !

Cheers from Doug

[modified]

I have to say that I played the most important role in my original cobra success (original because mine is the first that I've built)(Success because I finished it)

[twobjshelbys]

Shelby was a manager. Well, OK, he was a pretty good driver, but later turned to direction of others of his vision. There have been a few visionaries that managed to pull off. I'd put him up with Kelly Johnson and Fred Brooks. More of our presidents should surround themselves with people like Shelby (and Johnson) did.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Shelby was a manager. Well, OK, he was a pretty good driver, but later turned to direction of others of his vision. There have been a few visionaries that managed to pull off. I'd put him up with Kelly Johnson and Fred Brooks. More of our presidents should surround themselves with people like Shelby (and Johnson) did.

Talented people Shelby hired: Peter Brock - #1. Ken Miles, Bob Bondurant, Phil Remington, Dan Gurney.

[BT SNAKE]

I have met Mr Shelby and he was very polite. He stood and talked to me about cars and Vietnam. He noticed I was a Marine from a pin I wore. Even still I disagree with his viewpoint on the replica industry as a whole. My viewpoint says that Mr. Shelby would be nothing more than a footnote in the annals of racing history if it weren't for replicas. Arntzs, Butler, and Contemporary. These replicas brought forth the industry we know today.
They kept the fires burning.
After ten years or so more manufacturers started making replicas of the Cobra. Now this is where someone in the Shelby camp gets an idea because they see potential here. Suddenly there's a bunch of original old frames stored at the Goodyear dealership owned by Mr. Shelby. We all know that didn't work out too well. So what's the next step? Let's start a law suit. It took three years but that didn't work legally but it did cause Ford to look at the COBRA ownership of copyrighted material. When you have friends in high places you can get a few favors.
I also seriously doubt that Ford would have built the retro cobras and GT's if it wasn't for the replica popularity. Now a days Mr.Shelby endorses several replicas because it's big money when his name is affiliated with the product. He is back in good graces at Ford thus the Shelby Mustangs are back. So now he has what he wanted. Things have settled down a bit but replicas will continue and maybe one day before he passes he may acknowledge the replica industry for their part in reactivating the Shelby mystic and popularity of one of his ole race cars. (I won't hold my breath)

Just my opinion.
For some reason I still like the ole chicken farmer. SWR

Hersh

[boxhead]

I reckon it was the Doctor that told Shelby he can not drive anymore.
If he had not diagnosed the heart problem, Shelby may have crashed and died (no Cobra's) or he may have raced for another year or more (then ac would have been gone and he would have to look at another supplier of vehicles) (Also Ford may have had there own program running to compete against GM)

So if it was not for the Doctor and his diagnosis, the Cobra as we know and love it would either not exist, or be a totaly different beast.

[Dan Stryffeler]

Rats,

Boxhead - you beat me to the forum with the doctor answer... So instead I voted for Lee Iacocca; he wrote the checks that made it possible, (actually I kinda look at everyone as links on a bicycle chain, if single link doesn't work, the bike doesn't move).

Maybe the question should have been broken into two separate questions; 1) who played the most important role in making the street Cobra a success? and 2) who played the most important role in making the race cars a success?

Shelby wanted to go racing and the only reason for the street cars were to fund the race effort.

- Dan

[CobraDan]

I sure have to agree with Hersh on this one. As far as the originals go all of the above poll names had something to do with the originals, but in the near end Shelby could not give away the last of his 427 original cobras. With Factory Five who actually came into the cobra replica game late and now into production numbers in the 7,000 range, bring me to believe that known of us would be sitting around typing anything about a cobra if it wasn’t for the replica industry.

[Marvin]

Ford, they needed the racing exposure.

[Alan P.]

Briggs Cunningham for inspiring him, and David Brown, owner of Aston Martin, for giving him a chance to race and win the 24 hrs of LeMans in 1959. Without that win, he would never have had the authoritative voice or opportunity to launch the Cobra project.

[HealeyRick]

OK, I'll throw a really off the wall one here ... Sydney Allard. Sydney more or less invented the big American V8 into the British sports car formula and CS drove this Cad-Allard in 1952:



Check out the motor:



Shelby probably developed the best and most famous British-American hybrid, but he didn't invent the idea.

[Badger]

My vote goes to Phil Remington. Without Phil's genius, in solving almost every problem the AC chassis had, the car would never have gotten off the ground. Phil, almost single handedly, made the Cobra and the Shelby American team (and that includes ol' Shel')what they became. Badger

[rustyBob]

I have to agree with Hersh......
the name Shelby was almost dead.....
then came along the a guy who replicated
the Cobra....and 'Ol Shel threw a temper tantrum
and has pizzed away millions of dollars trying to stop
everybody who was paying homage to HIS idea....
C.S. once said in a magazine interview that the reason
he was putting a stop to all those who where replicating
the Cobra is because his grandkids couldent tell the difference
betweeen an original and a repica.....maybe they just didnt care...