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-   -   Shelby CSX price increase! (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/107263-shelby-csx-price-increase.html)

dcdoug 11-29-2010 08:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1092805)
Oh come on. Yes you do. I know you do. How else will we get Evan out of hiding? He certainly didn't take the bait when the judge ruled against Shelby in the case against FFR.

As for the price increase, it's America and there's only a couple days left.
I do kind of miss him. :(

Excaliber 11-29-2010 08:42 PM
Well thats exactly what I'm doing, taking it up with the manufacturer(s).

"Not a kit", is another term that's starting to bug me. If it's not a "kit" (and I maintain that is EXACTLY what it is, ALL of them, including Shelbys) and it's not a "replica" then what the heck is the public supposed to think it is?

Then I have to spend 30 mintues at the next car show explaining this all to somebody who is trying to figure it out. Where the guy next to me is claiming his Shelby is "genuine", the guy next to him is explaining it's "not a kit", and the next guy is going on about it being an officially licensed Shelby. Oh wait, theres a guy with a "real" alloy body Cobra! Dang, we can't even agree among ourselves who the heck is on first! It's damaging to the hobby and it engenders disgust among the populace. To often those WITH a clue, blow off the whole scene because of the mass confusion.

The industry would do well to consider some alternatives instead of this dog eat dog approach. Let the product speak for itself.

Dimis 11-29-2010 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twobjshelbys (Post 1092917)
Oh, here we go again, again... Can't we find another religious issue to talk about? What color should a Cobra be? for example?
BLUE - they should all be BLUE.

That way my red one can stand out :LOL:

Dimis 11-29-2010 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber (Post 1092925)
To often those WITH a clue, blow off the whole scene because of the mass confusion.
Not Confusing at all.
Mine will be a "Genuine" "Original" Kirkham... **)**)**)
:LOL::LOL::LOL:

This intellectual masturbation needs to be put to bed.


Enjoy your day.

Old Phart 11-30-2010 12:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen_becker (Post 1092594)
BTW - less then two days to go and 3/4 of 2011 Shelby Cobra production is already sold-out - orders are pouring in from all over the world and people are VERY excited about owning a genuine Shelby Cobra 427 S/C.

Don't get left behind and miss a $ 10,000.00 window of oppertunity that closes at 5pm EST on Tuesday.

sgb
Stephen, will these 2011 Shelby Cobra productions be titled as 2011 Shelby Cobras, or titled as 1965 Shelby Cobras?

Silverback51 11-30-2010 03:52 AM
I think we need a good political discussion. %/;):D

kayakjack 11-30-2010 05:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Phart (Post 1092963)
Stephen, will these 2011 Shelby Cobra productions be titled as 2011 Shelby Cobras, or titled as 1965 Shelby Cobras?
I think this depends on which state you live in. I don't think the manufacturer (Shelby or anyone else) can get one titled as a 1965 if it is not consistent with state law. Some states title cars like this as the year they represent. So these are legally titled as 1965 in those states. Other states without that legal provision title them as the year of manufacture. I am not sure which states are which.

Jack

RichardCSX6000 11-30-2010 05:53 AM
I once had a friend who had a 65 Mustang. He purchased a striping kit and a few other items that were licensed Shelby products and put them on it. He then told everyone it was a Shelby. Of course everyone knew it was not. He would scorn others who had purchased real Shelby's telling them how stupid they were, since he had achieved the same thing at home in his garage and his was the same as a real Shelby. I got him a fake Rolex for his birthday. He never did figure it out. Today he is in a mental institution. :eek:

RichardCSX6000 11-30-2010 07:33 AM
here ya go
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber (Post 1092827)
CSX6000 say's,


Judge Walsh, trademark court, disagree's, would you like to appeal? :) In his written opinion, he found no distinctive difference between an FFR or a Shelby, both being "replica's". Inferring that all other replica manufacturers have the same status as well, that of "replica".

He did not address the value or workmanship of either marque, FFR, Shelby or any other replica on the market. He only addressed the legal status.

Is a Shelby more desireable than other replica's offered on the market because of it's brand name alone? That would be a valid assumption. It carries a terrific brand name and has a closer connection to history than other replica's. It often carries the highest respect within the market place. Market prices support the idea that a Shelby retains a higher re-sale value than other replica's on the market. The details of any given build could be argued and compared, but when the smoke has cleared they ALL have one thing in common, they are ALL replica's.

"Kit" cars essentially, all though the preferred term is "roller" in the case of a Shelby and other similiar builds. But somebody OTHER THAN the manufacturer (in any case), by Federal law, must complete the car. As it is "incomplete" when it leaves the factory, it begs the question, what is it? Roller? Kit? Replica? Shelby prefer's the word "Continuation", generally accepted by the masses, so perhaps it is becoming or has become valid? It's tricky though, as it can lead to confusion and increases the possibility of fraud, now and into the future. To suggest that it is a "real" Cobra because Shelby built it, crosses the line, in my opinion, from carefully hyped advertising term's to out right fraud.

The key being Shelby does not, cannot by Federal law, specify the end product details. Could be a Roush motor, small or big block, and a myriad of other details.

"Continuation" should be considered synonymous with the term replica, in Judge Walsh's opinion.
With all due respect....I doubt the good Judge is really much of a Shelby expert, other than interpreting law verbage. I would much prefer to see what the real expert has to say...which follows.


"There's an exception when it comes to Jimmy Price and Lance Stander. Superformance International makes replica Cobras in South Africa and calls the two-seat roadster they build the MKIII. It's not a true Shelby, but I've endorsed and licensed the car for being as close to correct and well-built as possible."


- Carroll Shelby (Octane, Oct. 2006)

mrmustang 11-30-2010 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCSX6000 (Post 1093010)
"There's an exception when it comes to Jimmy Price and Lance Stander. Superformance International makes replica Cobras in South Africa and calls the two-seat roadster they build the MKIII. It's not a true Shelby, but I've endorsed and licensed the car for being as close to correct and well-built as possible."


- Carroll Shelby (Octane, Oct. 2006)
So using your example, why does he not also endorse ERA, and Kirkham as "being as close to correct and well-built as possible."

Oh, wait, I know why, because he is not getting paid to do so :rolleyes: :LOL:.


Yet, he still, at times, uses Kirkham to build chassis for his own continuation series offerings.

Finally, seeing that he is a "paid spokesman" for SPF, don't you think that he is no longer considered "subjective and fair" on the matter. Perhaps if he was not being paid, then his "expert testimony" would not be subject to such criticism.


Bill S.

patrickt 11-30-2010 07:43 AM
Bill, of course, sees the point that I was crawling (painfully slowly, I might add) to last night. Mr. Shelby can make any newly built car that bears a passing resemblance to the original cars of the 60's a "true, real, Shelby Cobra" just by saying it's so and having a relationship, albeit nothing more than financial, with the builders. That's all it takes -- and really, that's all you're getting.;) That, and a nicely built replica as well. Uhhh, usually nicely built, that is.

ERA Chas 11-30-2010 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCSX6000 (Post 1093010)
...Jimmy Price and Lance Stander. Superformance International makes replica Cobras in South Africa and calls the two-seat roadster they build the MKIII. It's not a true Shelby, but I've endorsed and licensed the car for being as close to correct and well-built as possible."
- Carroll Shelby (Octane, Oct. 2006)
What a crock that is-that title belongs only to the Kirkham. Statements like this are the reason he has zero credibility.
He will proclaim anything that makes him a bigger buck and his disciples will parrot that as gospel to the sheep.
It's all just BS.

A-Snake 11-30-2010 08:09 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2449/...4e9_z.jpg?zz=1

Excaliber 11-30-2010 09:16 AM
Interesting post A-Snake. "Component car", a fitting term, not misleading and reasonably accurate. It could be applied to a number of replicas. Note that Shelby's, in this article, correctly state the car is also a replica, as we have come to understand the meaning of the word.

Like all other replica's if you were to use the strict definition of the word, a Shelby CSX glass series car would not qualify, nor would any glass replica. A few alloy body Shelbys are contenders, most being based on the Kirkham. Certainly the McCluskey examples (notably the Completition series cars), would qualify. Some of the early Kirkham's would also come close, or be spot on, to a strict definition of the word, "replica".

Due to popular demand for more modern parts and ever changing specs, few Kirkhams today, as well as Shelbys, even come close to a strict definition of the word replica. But in either case, they do retain the basic "components" that would allow for an extremely accurate build should that be desired.

twobjshelbys 11-30-2010 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excaliber (Post 1093040)

Like all other replica's if you were to use the strict definition of the word, a Shelby CSX glass series car would not qualify, nor would any glass replica. A few alloy body Shelbys are contenders, most being based on the Kirkham. Certainly the McCluskey examples (notably the Completition series cars), would qualify. Some of the early Kirkham's would also come close, or be spot on, to a strict definition of the word, "replica".

OK, I'll disagree on this one. The aluminum bodied Kirkham and Kirkham-built CSX cars would belong in the same category as the glass-bodied cars because of the manufacturing process (stamped aluminum). The closest to a true replica of the originals (by the definition above) would be the rolled alloy cars in the CSX1000 series. And they are beautiful.

RodKnock 11-30-2010 10:13 AM
For the record, I posted that passage from the Registry, without an actual scan/photo, sometime back, and boy Evan sure took offense to it. Evan, where are you? We miss you.

Back to the thread, tomorrow, 12/1, the prices of all new CSX's increase $10,000 to $59,995. So, operators are standing by. Order early and avoid the rush.

patrickt 11-30-2010 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1093055)
Back to the thread, tomorrow, 12/1, the prices of all new CSX's increase $10,000 to $59,995. So, operators are standing by. Order early and avoid the rush.
Ehhh, just backdate the purchase order. We backdate stock option grants all the time....;) No big deal.

RodKnock 11-30-2010 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by twobjshelbys (Post 1093054)
OK, I'll disagree on this one. The aluminum bodied Kirkham and Kirkham-built CSX cars would belong in the same category as the glass-bodied cars. The closest to a true replica of the originals (by the definition above) would be the rolled alloy cars in the CSX1000 series. And they are beautiful.
Here's one on ClubCobra for sale now:

http://www.clubcobra.com/classifieds...uct=3243&cat=2

Uh, obviously not affiliated with the seller.

RodKnock 11-30-2010 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 1093056)
Ehhh, just backdate the purchase order. We backdate stock option grants all the time....;) No big deal.
Yes, but Shelby Cobras are serious business, not like stock option grants. :p

Excaliber 11-30-2010 10:38 AM
twobjshelby's, good catch, I'm not familiar enough with the details of a CSX1000 series car to make that call, but it would certainly be a worthy contender.

Depending on additional specs, it takes more than just a body and frame. Suspension components, dash design and gauges, interior appointments, wiring details, engine specs, etc. Suffice to say, very few cars would meet an exacting definition of the word.

Over the years there have been a few examples of other vehicle replica's that are truly breath taking in their level of detail to accuracy, but not many.

"Close enough" for most of us, usually means the body shape and contours alone is all it takes. I'm OK with that,,, just musing on a concours level of accuracy. Like when you've got 5 or 6 SAAC judges/inspectors crawling all over the car and decucting points for using the wrong bolt or nut. :)


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