Crate engines to assemble yourself

[Excaliber]

When I rebuilt my side oiler it seem's like 90% of the work was getting the various parts ready. There is a TON of measurements you have to take before you can order parts, some of which are custom. Get the measurements wrong and your screwed, you can't return custom parts, you get ONE shot at them.

Then there was the multiple trips to the machine shop, and double checking HIS work with more measurements when I got the stuff home. Was the crank ground exactly like I wanted? Was the bore? Did I even HAVE the proper tools to measure this stuff and was I doing in the correct manner? Whew, it was nerve wracking man, a lot of sleepless nights over the block, the crank, the pistons, the heads. What "parts" am I going with and why? Flat tappet cam breakin procedures? Will it all work together or did I make a bad choice on some part? Ring gap file? I aint got no ring gap file, say WHAT?! Surprising how many tools a guy needs, when your doing it from scratch.

A "kit" makes a LOT of sense, ready to assemble, yup, makes a lot of sense. Heck, thats the bulk of the work right there! The final assembly is a piece of cake compared to the prepartion work to get to that point.

It is a terrific feeling driving the car and knowing, "I built that motor, this is SO awesome".

If nothing else, mail your block to Keith, let HIM do the measurments, prep the block, spec the parts and send it all back. And don't go off trying to save a few bucks by buying some parts from a "cheaper source" or "on sale" after you get that block and stuff back. SINGLE SOURCE this stuff baby, single source, whatever the source may be, don't screw around trying to second guess a few parts from this guy or that. Do a package deal, it's by far the best way.

You know, if you buy enough parts, from the same source, he might just loosen up enough to throw a few tips your way that are simply priceless. Some of this you can't find in "books", some of it is specific to YOUR build. Those "secrets" are invaluable.

[LoBelly]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

When I rebuilt my side oiler it seem's like 90% of the work was getting the various parts ready. There is a TON of measurements you have to take before you can order parts, some of which are custom. Get the measurements wrong and your screwed, you can't return custom parts, you get ONE shot at them.

Then there was the multiple trips to the machine shop, and double checking HIS work with more measurements when I got the stuff home. Was the crank ground exactly like I wanted? Was the bore? Did I even HAVE the proper tools to measure this stuff and was I doing in the correct manner? Whew, it was nerve wracking man, a lot of sleepless nights over the block, the crank, the pistons, the heads. What "parts" am I going with and why? Flat tappet cam breakin procedures? Will it all work together or did I make a bad choice on some part? Ring gap file? I aint got no ring gap file, say WHAT?! Surprising how many tools a guy needs, when your doing it from scratch.

A "kit" makes a LOT of sense, ready to assemble, yup, makes a lot of sense. Heck, thats the bulk of the work right there! The final assembly is a piece of cake compared to the prepartion work to get to that point.

It is a terrific feeling driving the car and knowing, "I built that motor, this is SO awesome".

...

Ernie's post reflects my thoughts on the matter.

I would be delighted to be able to put in an order for the parts combo that I wanted and to have them machined to fit as they should.

Particularly from a reputable performance shop as I believe this makes a difference to the nature of tollerences and what will/won't be seen as acceptable.

I suspect that many machine shops would offer the service if you asked - or thought to - and that offering this as a service will make self assembly much more viable for a number of people.

LoBelly

[rodneym]

The engine building experience sounds like an awesome idea! To get a change to build your engine with a master at the helm

But selling kits alone could only damage a reputation. What builders truly offer is more art than science. Parts is parts (even if it's all decked/honed) but an engine master will contribute all sorts of intangibles that you can't get from a box of parts or instruction manual.

[ACademic]

I think what Rodney is trying to say is that he would not be able to warranty his own work.

[blykins]

I think it would be more trouble than it's worth for Keith.

You don't know how often that standard and .001", or standard and X bearing halves have to be matched up to keep main and rod bearing clearances in check.

Or....the occasional thrust bearing that needs sanded because it locks the crankshaft up.

Or....the grinding that has to be done to make crank counterweights clear oil pumps or pan rails, etc.

Selling a kit to someone that thinks it's going to be "insert part A into part B" could potentially cause a lot of email and phone time for KC (or Club Cobra).

[patrickt]

But Brent, if someone wanted to sit on your knee and be part of their engine's build, and was willing to pay a premium for that opportunity, would you get on board with that idea?

[blykins]

Originally Posted by patrickt

But Brent, if someone wanted to sit on your knee and be part of their engine's build, and was willing to pay a premium for that opportunity, would you get on board with that idea?

Probably not. I really don't have the patience, the time, or the nerves to do it that way. If I were busy talking or explaining, I'd be worried that I would forget something...plus I couldn't turn up the 70's music and build in my underwear.

[undy]

Originally Posted by blykins

I think it would be more trouble than it's worth for Keith.

You don't know how often that standard and .001", or standard and X bearing halves have to be matched up to keep main and rod bearing clearances in check.

Or....the occasional thrust bearing that needs sanded because it locks the crankshaft up.

Or....the grinding that has to be done to make crank counterweights clear oil pumps or pan rails, etc.

Selling a kit to someone that thinks it's going to be "insert part A into part B" could potentially cause a lot of email and phone time for KC (or Club Cobra).

Or...... file fitting the rings to every cylinder.

[ERA Chas]

Keith,
You asked for opinions, here's mine.
A. Don't sell your business unless you're willing and able to retire and live on a tropic isle.
B. To do this kit project, the legal disclaimer that would be mandatory to protect you would be a mile long.
C. Standing behind your work is one thing-standing behind the parts is another-even if you touched every one while prepping and machining kits.
D. You will always have bothers with hammerheads who refuse to believe they f'd up and you did. For proof, look at the Roush threads-you're a fraction of Roush's size which is why they can be very lax about response and responsibility. You'll need a phone in the crapper because it will not stop ringing.
E. If the margin on built engines is already thin, why would the margin on kits (and their parts) which you must build anyway, be any greater??
F. Expanding your product line will mean more shop and shop guys-you'll have to assess more overhead by the responses you're getting here. For this week, fine-over the next two years to amortize-maybe not. Do you feel lucky?
G. Forget all the creative ideas about seminars, sleep-overs, satellite offices, hand-holdings etc. I think your intent is to have less to do with the customer-the suggesters don't get that. They want to be at your supper table.
H. Tiffany doesn't sell jewelry kits. They sell hand-crafted perfection and the clientele buys as such or walks. And they have competitors too. Currently, a KCR engine has a high appreciation level here and in racing. They will all still come to your door.
I. My mother can give my wife a recipe of ingredients. My wife can cook. But it never tastes like mom's. Why? The intangible touch, care and experience that goes with the recipe.
Amateurs can't cook like you, Brent, Barry, Tom, Mike, George, Boghosian and Clayton. All of you have decades of 'touch' and dyno saavy-no garage wizards have that-including and especially me.
J. Stay as you are...

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by ACademic

I think what Rodney is trying to say is that he would not be able to warranty his own work.

THAT, I guarantee!