Need advice: brakes on CMC/StreetBeasts

[holt8137]

I recently acquired a '66 CMC/StreetBeasts Cobra. Had it for about 2 weeks, and then the Wilwood brake/clutch pedal assembly broke. I was eventually able to repair everything, and it is now back in working order. I'm not going into detail on how the assembly broke, because I don't think it pertains to my concerns below.

However, I have one really big concern. The whole brake/clutch/pedal assembly is bolted to the fiberglass body. Essentially, the fiberglass body is sandwiched between the master cylinders (in the engine compartment) and the pedal assembly (in the foot well, obviously).

Now, my concern is as follows: The Willwood installation instructions specifically states that the pedal assembly should be mounted/bolted to a rigid structure that is part of the frame of the vehicle. This is not the case with my vehicle. Whenever I press the brakes or clutch, I can literally hear the fiberglass flexing and deflecting.

It's a little scary when you are riding in a 500+ hp machine and you believe your brakes have the potential to fail.

Does anyone here believe the way the master cylinders and pedals are mounted is bad? Or am I just over reacting?

Is there anyone around here that owns a CMC/StreetBeasts kit? If so, I am extremely interested in hearing how your brake/clutch/pedal systems are mounted to the car.

( I am well aware of CMC/StreetBeasts past. Had I been more educated before I purchased the car, I wouldn't have bought it. Hindsight is 20/20. Please, lets not turn this thread into a CMC/Streetbeasts flame fest. I will be greatful if we can stick to contructive feedback and/or help.)

[Double Venom]

Holt,
Since you are well aware of the problems with S.B.'s Cobras, I wont go there! A solution that I have done is take as large a 10 ga. flat plate of steel, as big a piece as you can put in/against the firewall on the inside.

Take the master cylinder off, pull the Pedals out, us one or both parts as patterns for the steel. Bolt it all back together again using the plate as the sandwich. This should take care of your problem.

If NOT then make a larger but matching plate for the outside of the firewall and then bolt everything together. Problem solved.

My 2-cents
DV

[mdross1]

Obviously they have changed things since I bought mine in 93,my firewall area is more than up to the task.Have been running dual Willwood masters for quite a while no way any fiberglass can flex.Maybe when assembled the builder left out the supports.

[StreetSnake]

Holt,

This was once mine. I hope I was somewhat helpful on our phone conversation. Sorry to hear you are having problems with the wilwood setup, but the steel plate, like we discussed should do the trick. I never experienced the deflection but can definetly understand your concern. My builder and I spent many long hours on this project. I hope you enjoy it!! By the way, who did you purchase it from??

[holt8137]

Originally Posted by StreetSnake

Holt,

This was once mine. I hope I was somewhat helpful on our phone conversation. Sorry to hear you are having problems with the wilwood setup, but the steel plate, like we discussed should do the trick. I never experienced the deflection but can definetly understand your concern. My builder and I spent many long hours on this project. I hope you enjoy it!! By the way, who did you purchase it from??

HA!! Small world we live in here. If you're absolutely sure it is a streetbeasts, does any of this sound familiar?

"There should be a 1/4 plate bolted at thebottem to the lateral frame rail and reinforced with an angle arm on the inside in front/bottom of the foot box. The plate is about 8 inches wide and extends up to where the steering column frame and master cylinder bolt to it.Sounds like this plate was not installed."

As far as chain of title is concerned all I know are the 2 owners previous to myself. Garaffalo -> Mullens -> ME ; anything before that is unknown to me. I didn't include first names since this is a public forum. If you want them just for curiosity reasons, send me a PM and ill let you know. But, something tells me you will know who Garaffalo is.

[joyridin']

When I was building my CMC, there was a 1/4" steel plate where the MC mounted. If i recall, it was floating, but there may have been some brackets. It did not just mount to the fiberglass firewall as yours seems to do.

I don't think you are being paranoid. I think this is a bit unsafe. If the MC were to start leaking around the seal, as they often do, it could soften the fiberglass.

[holt8137]

Thanks for the constructive replys guys. The intallation actually does have a couple steel plates. One on either side of the fiberglass. However, they are extremely thin. Only about 1/16 of an inch thick. And, in my opinion way too small (surface area wise) to be of any real benefit. I'll include a small quickly made picture of what the plates look like. They are more or less as small as possible. The picture is not to scale of course, just quickly made in MS Paint to show how whom ever made the plates used just enough for the studs to go through. More surface area would have provided more pressure displacement across the fiberglass.

The thought of taking it all apart again makes me shiver and want to cry. Few things I've done have been as big of a pain in the ass. Mainly because, as you all know too well, the area where the pedals and the drivers legs go is EXTREMELY cramped. I'm not a large person, and I can't even get two arms/hands in there to work with. And, I had to make custom length studs to mate the cylinders to the pedals. Using thicker steel will most definately call for more studs.

Anyway, enough of my whining. I'll do what must be done. Thicker steel with a bigger surface area it is. Thanks for the constructive comments guys.

[holt8137]

Here's the quick drawing of the bracket

[cobraleonard]

Holt
There should be a 1/4 plate bolted at thebottem to the lateral frame rail and reinforced with an angle arm on the inside in front/bottom of the foot box. The plate is about 8 inches wide and extends up to where the steering column frame and master cylinder bolt to it.Sounds like this plate was not installed. It come predrilled and is an absolute regardless of what it takes to install it. Others on here may be able to say how much thrust is on the brake rod link. I just sold a kit with one on loose that i could have made a template of. Pull the column and make a cardboard template.Too much to chance here
Joe

[holt8137]

Originally Posted by cobraleonard

Holt
There should be a 1/4 plate bolted at thebottem to the lateral frame rail and reinforced with an angle arm on the inside in front/bottom of the foot box. The plate is about 8 inches wide and extends up to where the steering column frame and master cylinder bolt to it.Sounds like this plate was not installed. It come predrilled and is an absolute regardless of what it takes to install it. Others on here may be able to say how much thrust is on the brake rod link. I just sold a kit with one on loose that i could have made a template of. Pull the column and make a cardboard template.Too much to chance here
Joe

Thanks for the info. I'll definitely look into that. Hell, I just learned today who manufactured my body and frame. Took 3 weeks to track down the original builder/owner just so I could ask him about the manufacturer so I could in turn ask them how they recommend pedal installation. And even then I don't think he was 100% positive it's from CMC/StreetBeasts, since it was a few years ago. Naturally nobody answers the phone at StreetBeasts and the Tech Support Line just has a recording that due to economic conditions, they can't afford tech support staff......

If anyone has pictures of this 8" wide bracket before and/or after body installation, that'd be excellent.

Other than the problem with the brake master cylender mounting how do you like being the owner of a Cobra ???
remember half of the fun of owning one of these is fixeing them when they break..
and welcome to C.C.

Other than this one problem, the car is amazing. Looks beautiful, sounds beautiful. Extremely easy and fun to drive (when I'm not worrying my self about brake failure that is... :P )
While I agree whole heartedly that half the fun is tinkering with them, I'm going to exclude the pedal assembly from the long list of fun stuff. Stick me under the car or in the engine bay all day long, but please, for the love of god don't stick me under the dash with the pedals.

post a couple of pics. so we can see what it looks like....

ask and you shall recieve...



Once the new shop is completed (this Saturday.. WOOHOO!!) Our cars will finally have a real place to call home. Maybe I'll be able to get a few more much better pictures that this crappy cell phone picture.

[mdross1]

Car looks great in gray,remembering back when fitting and assembling my car it was amazing how well everything fit together.Never had any issues at all other than trying to figure out the assembly manual.Always wondered how people without those kinds of skills would ever be able to do it.

[StreetSnake]

Holt,

I check the forum on occasion usually to check for nice parts that I wish I could have and see if any new cobras are hitting the road. This forum is tremendous and I wish I had found it before I started my search for a cobra to build. The manual for this car is worthless, I will say I didn't have any spare parts left over that weren't replaced with higher quality ones. Maybe they made a change after mine(yours)??? If it makes you feel any better for the money I had it that one I could have been driving around in a Kirkam or CSX. I'm the original owner, I traded to garafolo, I thought he was a dealer but he told me he was looking for a car for himself, guess not. Did you buy it from a dealer or individual? If you ever want to sell her let me know. Just once I got it broke in and all the little issues worked out I got rid of it for another car with issues. Every car I've had that I thought wouldn't have issues, had issues!! My luck.

[mdross1]

Originally Posted by StreetSnake

Holt,

I check the forum on occasion usually to check for nice parts that I wish I could have and see if any new cobras are hitting the road. This forum is tremendous and I wish I had found it before I started my search for a cobra to build. The manual for this car is worthless, I will say I didn't have any spare parts left over that weren't replaced with higher quality ones. Maybe they made a change after mine(yours)??? If it makes you feel any better for the money I had it that one I could have been driving around in a Kirkam or CSX. I'm the original owner, I traded to garafolo, I thought he was a dealer but he told me he was looking for a car for himself, guess not. Did you buy it from a dealer or individual? If you ever want to sell her let me know. Just once I got it broke in and all the little issues worked out I got rid of it for another car with issues. Every car I've had that I thought wouldn't have issues, had issues!! My luck.

All cars will have issues building them just because! I have a lot in mine but had no choice for the performance level I needed.Redid the frame to get rid of all the mustang stuff,run under car exhaust and set it up for tubular suspension with Coilovers,then had it scaled to road race.Dual WillWood masters for the 12" WillWood Ultralites all around.In the end this car turned out to be as good as any out there regardless of reputation.Love the softtop now looking into hardtop.

[rustyBob]

Other than the problem with the brake master cylender mounting how do you like being the owner of a Cobra ???
remember half of the fun of owning one of these is fixeing them when they break..
and welcome to C.C.

[rustyBob]

post a couple of pics. so we can see what it looks like....

[Double Venom]

That HAS TO BE THE FINEST STREET BEAST, FIBREFAB, Innovative Street Machine, CMC COBRA I have ever seen! Beautiful!

Someone has put a ton of work in this one, and well shows it!

DV

[holt8137]

Originally Posted by Double Venom

That HAS TO BE THE FINESSED STREET BEAST, FIBREFAB, Innovative Street Machine, CMC COBRA I have ever seen! Beautiful!

Someone has put a ton of work in this one, and well shows it!

DV

Thanks!! I agree that whomever built the car did a superb job all around. The paint is amazingly good, and the engine... well I can just stare at that all day with a big smile on my face.

Holt
I have a part list with picture of the plate you need. I can't attached it here??

PM'd

[DonB]

Holt, I'm still in the process of assembling my CMC , Mine has a 1/4" plate on the engine side and on the footwell side there is a 1/4" pc of angle iron that bolts thru the frame on the bottom and out thru the plate that the master cylinder mounts to, then the pedal assembly bolts to the hoop that the dash mounts to and the bolts for the master cylinder go thru the 1/4" plate and into the pedal assy. housing. Overall mine looks pretty stout. Don

[cobraleonard]

Holt
I have a part list with picture of the plate you need. I can't attached it here??

[Double Venom]

By all means, let us see what puts a smile on your face!
DV