How do you handle the questions?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Yes, yes. Ned wrote that. Yes, Ned is the Registrar for the original cars (427 or 289, can't remember and very knowledgeable as to the history of the original cars) however that statement was made in the context of the new "completion cars" discussion and the personal statement made by him does not represent an official statement by the organization whose text and definitions are clear and expressly stated.

Yes, yes. Context is important. Ned was speaking about all Shelby replicas, not just the 3000 "resurrection" Cobras. However, the 3000 "resurrection" Cobras are actually higher on the old Shelby food chain than your 4000 series car with all those NOS/OEM parts and stuff. BUT, they're all replicas. Not the same company, not the same parts, not the same employees and made 50 years after the original production run. Ned is considered an expert and he has an opinion, just like all the other experts at SAAC.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Yes, yes. Context is important. Ned was speaking about all Shelby replicas, not just the 3000 "resurrection" Cobras. However, the 3000 "resurrection" Cobras are actually higher on the old Shelby food chain than your 4000 series car with all those NOS/OEM parts and stuff. BUT, they're all replicas. Not the same company, not the same parts, not the same employees and made 50 years after the original production run. Ned is considered an expert and he has an opinion, just like all the other experts at SAAC.

Yes, he is an expert on original cars. Agreed. That doesn't mean he speaks for SAAC on all issues nor did he say he was speaking for SAAC. He is not SAAC.

You are entitled to use whatever definition of "replica" you like or analyze it any way you like. I'll stick with the Registry definition. Thanks though.

As for the "Completion" cars being "higher" in the Shelby on the Cobra "totem pole"...yes I can see that if they were actual "completion cars" but that's an entirely different discussion is it not? Bottom line is the Continuation Cobras are on the Cobra "totem pole" PaulF's and the rest in his tribute's category aren't even on the pole. This explains the angst for those in having to admit when they really don't want to to Joe Public his LA Exotic for example or others like it etc...that it is really just a pretend Shelby Cobra. Again, bottom line they can try and garnish it any way they want buy they have a fake of what Shelby owners have.

The only thing that makes many of these guys feel better is to bring down what someone else owns and then cry foul and play the victim saying "its all about his is better then yours" when the facts are shoved in their face. Please. LOL. Comical really.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Yes, he is an expert on original cars. Agreed. That doesn't mean he speaks for SAAC on all issues nor did he say he was speaking for SAAC. He is not SAAC.

You are entitled to use whatever definition of "replica" you like or analyze it any way you like. I'll stick with the Registry definition. Thanks though.

As for the "Completion" cars being "higher" in the Shelby on the Cobra "totem pole"...yes I can see that if they were actual "completion cars" but that's an entirely different discussion is it not? Bottom line is the Continuation Cobras are on the Cobra "totem pole" PaulF's and the rest in his tribute's category aren't even on the pole. This explains the angst for those in having to admit when they really don't want to to Joe Public his LA Exotic for example or others like it etc...that it is really just a pretend Shelby Cobra. Again, bottom line they can try and garnish it any way they want buy they have a fake of what Shelby owners have.

The only thing that makes many of these guys feel better is to bring down what someone else owns and then cry foul and play the victim saying "its all about his is better then yours" when the facts are shoved in their face. Please. LOL. Comical really.

I think the key sentence in Ned's statement is:

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Some time ago it was decided (or so I thought) that SAAC would deal with the historic cars, and let Shelby American handle the replicas they have made.

Just like politicians, positions and opinions can evolve. There may be a movement afoot to remove the Shelby "true replicas", Kirkham and SPF GT40 replicas from the SAAC Registry. I'd certainly support it. There's just too many replicas to keep track of and the SAAC Registrars are just volunteers.

As for the 3000 series resurrection Cobras, at $500,000 per copy , they'll be the best Shelby replicas available.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

,,,There may be a movement afoot to remove the Shelby "true replicas", Kirkham and SPF GT40 replicas from the SAAC Registry,,,

A big step in the right direction and how it should have been all along.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I think the key sentence in Ned's statement is:


Just like politicians, positions and opinions can evolve. There may be a movement afoot to remove the Shelby "true replicas", Kirkham and SPF GT40 replicas from the SAAC Registry. I'd certainly support it. There's just too many replicas to keep track of and the SAAC Registrars are just volunteers.

As for the 3000 series resurrection Cobras, at $500,000 per copy , they'll be the best Shelby replicas available.

Yes, when Shelby started making Cobras again there was some discussion just how to deal with them. It was an interesting issue as to how to deal with them. I think SAAC made the correct decision in including the new Shelby Cobras as it is part of the continuation evolution of Shelby American. They have dealt with them logically, fairly and correctly. As to the inclusion of other cars they have their reasons and they are free to revisit their decisions. It's their club and their Registry but having cataloged many new Shelby Cobras it would seem counter productive to just leave them out if we are cataloging Shelby Cobras and the ongoing history and developments.

They have clearly broken out the original historic cars to their own chapters.

You say their may be a movement afoot? Funny, I haven't heard of any such movement. You have decided there are too many cars to keep track of? Does SAAC concur with you? Who is your source? Please tell us. Talk about "spin".

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Yes, when Shelby started making Cobras again there was some discussion just how to deal with them. It was an interesting issue as to how to deal with them. I think SAAC made the correct decision in including the new Shelby Cobras as it is part of the continuation evolution of Shelby American. They have dealt with them logically, fairly and correctly. As to the inclusion of other cars they have their reasons and they are free to revisit their decisions. It's their club and their Registry but having cataloged many new Shelby Cobras it would seem counter productive to just leave them out if we are cataloging Shelby Cobras and the ongoing history and developments.

They have clearly broken out the original historic cars to their own chapters.

You say their may be a movement afoot? Funny, I haven't heard of any such movement. You have decided there are too many cars to keep track of? Does SAAC concur with you? Who is your source? Please tell us. Talk about "spin".

It's a club alright. They can decide who's included and excluded. And the only certainty about the future is that we change and evolve. There may come a time that SAAC washes their hands of all replicas, including the Shelbys.

Speaking spin, SAAC has them with logically, fairly and correctly, well, that's your opinion. I disagree. All Cobra, Daytona Coupe and GT40 replicas in the Registry should be removed. Then we're talking about logically, fairly and correctly. Cars built 50 years later that aren't built by the same company, using the same parts and built by the same employees are simply REPLICAS.

Hopefully the SAAC Board and membership will evolve and remove everything but the originals. That's what I would do.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

It's a club alright. They can decide who's included and excluded. And the only certainty about the future is that we change and evolve. There may come a time that SAAC washes their hands of all replicas, including the Shelbys.

Speaking spin, SAAC has them with logically, fairly and correctly, well, that's your opinion. I disagree. All Cobra, Daytona Coupe and GT40 replicas in the Registry should be removed. Then we're talking about logically, fairly and correctly. Cars built 50 years later that aren't built by the same company, using the same parts and built by the same employees are simply REPLICAS.

Hopefully the SAAC Board and membership will evolve and remove everything but the originals. That's what I would do.

You may certainly disagree with SAAC. Free country.

....So then if SAI had remained in existence without interruption and today still produced the same Cobra but the sources of parts, chassis and employees were different they would still be replicas/fakes?

They would be what they are today, Shelby Cobras produced at a different time and place with new components. Same car just newer.

By your logic once a manufacturer stops making a car they can never make the car again. Silly.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

You may certainly disagree with SAAC. Free country.

....So then if SAI had remained in existence without interruption and today still produced the same Cobra but the sources of parts, chassis and employees were different they would still be replicas/fakes?

They would be what they are today, Shelby Cobras produced at a different time and place with new components. Same car just newer.

By your logic once a manufacturer stops making a car they can never make the car again. Silly.

Same car? puh-leeze. Your 4000 series body has different aluminum for one thing. Different metallurgy. Different thickness. Differences galore. A '60's top loader and side oiler doesn't make your replica an original.

Your hypothetical is null and void. And my logic is correct. The Cobra and many other vehicles of the 1960's didn't survive because they couldn't meet modern standards of safety and emissions. Porsches and Corvettes evolved, but they're no where near the same car as built in the 1960's. And if Cobras were built today, they would have impact protection, air bags, catalytic converters, etc. they'd probably look a lot like a SRT Viper, in fact.

Nothing remains the same. The SAAC Board and membership will change someday. And so shall replica definitions.