78 Miles

[tin-man]

Yep that’s right, I drove 78 miles in my brand new Cobra and then the Roush 511 IRFE engine and Bowler 4R70W automatic transmission package stopped functioning. My dream for the last ten years has decidedly turned in to one of the biggest nightmares and a disappointment of a lifetime.

Event sequence:

Total elapsed time from order placement, December 28, 2009 to receipt of vehicle, June 15, 2011: One year, five months, three weeks and one day. No worries really, I work in China and it was to be a retirement present for myself by end of this year.

June 13th: Drove in from Phoenix, 800 miles, to pick up my car and oversee the transportation back to my home in Sun City West. Great excitement my Cobra was ready. Started the car and the sound effects were all that I had hoped for. Very deep rumble coupled with a very pleasing staccato lope. This Roush big block was all that I had read about on their website. However, just like the Bill Cosby video the car grabbed and wanted its freedom to take off. OK seems reasonable; the engine was linked to Bowler automatic transmission. Drove car for maybe five or six miles and apart from a bumpy ride was all that I had hoped for. Well sort of, I was informed the engine had a higher than normal idle speed of 1000 rpm that was causing the grab effect and the current engine program put the car into overdrive very quickly and Roush was working on a program to fix that but it was still under development.

I was also informed there had been a “surging” effect between gears during previous driving tests that was linked to the Compushift programming and Bowler transmission but Voss Performance and Bowler Transmissions had been in discussions and how to modulate the overall effect. Since I did not experience this phenomenon while test driving the car I did not consider it any further. But it was disconcerting that I would at some time in the future have to send the car back to California for the Roush program fix. But the car was as it was and was ready for release to me.

June 14th, pm, test drove the car once more for about an hour, all seemed well, I was a happy camper and ready to go.

June 15th loaded the car in a commercial car carrier and set off to my home in Arizona. After eight hours of driving arrived safely, unloaded the car and drove it for a couple of blocks around my home. Other than the grabbing effect, it was an awesome experience.

June 16th am, need to get my car registered, got a temporary driving permit from Sun City West DMV and set off for Glendale DMV for vehicle inspection and an Arizona vehicle identification number. This is when my whole world started getting unpleasant. The DMV is eighteen miles from my house, drove on surface streets with moderate traffic flow, not exceeding 40 mph. Transmission started to downshift automatically from what appeared to be fourth to third and then back up again, a real surging effect, car lunged back and forth when this occurred, like a rowing effect. I got a really bad feeling this was not right.

Finally got the car registered and received a Historic Vehicle plate. It was done; I could go home and now legally drive my car.

June 16th pm. driving home experienced a higher frequency rate of downshifting and up shifting. After every stop light it would start this surging phenomenon.

Got on a stretch of road nearby my home to see how the car would open up and took it up to between fifty and sixty MPH, seems ok, no surge, so maybe this bug has gone away with driving on an open road without stop signs.

Pull off the road and start to head home, came to a stop sign and oh-oh the transmission would not go any higher than first gear, so limped along for a mile to the entrance of the community where I live, pulled off the road and decided to stop and restart the car.

Cranked the engine then all hell broke lose, a very loud metallic sounding clunk, car shook, stick shift moved about half an inch and that’s it. Opened hood to see if I could see anything amiss since it really sounded and felt as though the engine had come off its mounts but all seemed to be in order. Decided to try one more time, same effect, but this time there was smoke coming from the engine. OK that’s it, I’m screwed.

Communicated with Voss Performance and attempted to restart the car so the effect could be heard, yep, that don’t sound too good. Nothing we can do at this juncture except send the car back to Voss in California.

The car was pushed onto the same auto transporter that delivered the car the previous day and is now in route back to California.

Total miles put on the car before the engine and transmission package ceased to function correctly: 78

I’m going back to China next week and the car, already paid for, will stay with Voss Performance who will be in communications with Roush, Bowler and Compushift and they will have six month to sort out all the reasons and resolve whatever it was to fix the issues that created the transmission and engine to malfunction and return my car so I can drive it without having a repetition of the events I experienced.

OK hindsight analysis, the car was only road tested for 49 miles, should I have insisted it be driven more, say, 100-200 miles or so, absolutely, the issue was it could not be legally driven in California without registering the vehicle, but if the car had been driven more, even up to 100 miles, the effects I experienced at 78 miles would have been discovered and then remedied.

So in the fog of excitement to get my Cobra after waiting so long for it to be completed I let my better judgment get overruled and as a result my dream and what was to be one of the most memorable events in my life got trashed, and trashed big time.

Voss Performance will start diagnostics on the causal effects just as soon as the car is returned and I guess we will see if the folks who sold me the engine and transmission package will resolve the issues and honor their commitments to provide a reliable product package that will deliver correct shifting and idle programming and Voss has agreed to extended road testing to mitigate any repetition of the events I have described above.

The Superformance roller was and is spectacular, it is without a doubt an awesome looking machine, unfortunately the engine and transmission package do not compliment the machine at this time since they don’t work.

What has happened should never have happened and I am at a loss to understand how anyone can explain how after 78 miles the engine and transmission failed to function and stopped.

For the money I have spent on this car and the extended wait before delivery I am experiencing what can best be described as a complete and utter morale outrage and there needs be some answers from Roush, Bowler, Compushift and Voss as to why this happened and a commitment to get the issues resolved.

tin-man, AKA, John,

[csx4910]

All I can say Tin man is that several of you have felt (at at times continue to feel your pain) Being such long distance will make the fight harder but I can honestly tell you that you have to be like a dog on the bone to keep them accountable(especially Roush). Make them sort it out but count on more than a few trips back and forth to the shop before you get your fitst 500 miles on it. My advice, make sure they sort out the auto tans since that has never been done (to my knowledge )with one of the 511's here locally and for motor issues once it gets here take it Hot Rods by dean for roush warranty, especially if Voss tries to screw you. They should of put more miles on it before ever delivering it. They could of done 100 miles on a dyno wihtout being on a street.
Best of Luck
Ron

[SandyC]

Oh man, John, what a bummer! My heart just sunk at the news. I agree with Ron, if your installer turns out to be incapable of putting this project together and displays poor customer service by trying to ignore you, or put you on the back burner, or does nothing at all by just blaming the other guys, then getting in touch with Hot Rods by Dean here in Phoenix may be worth a try. Keep us informed because if a small outfit like that screws you then they're doomed, the word will spread like wildfire. I hope they take the high road and make things right -- pronto!

[Buzz]

Wow John. That is an absolutely disgraceful shame. You've paid (a lot) in full, tolerated an awfully long wait and now this. A year and a half for a car that basically needs a drivetrain dropped in, wired and plumbed - and it still won't run! These people have a lot to answer for.

You still have a beautiful Cobra though. The issues had nothing to do with Superformance and maybe one ought to expect some R&D issues with the unconventional drivetrain. However, the car should have been sorted and tested by the time you took delivery, if only to spare you the disappointment you experienced on your long awaited first few drives.

I feel for you buddy and I really hope these folks realize how important it is for them to make this right double quick.

One thought - have you considered (if it's even possible) putting a manual valve body in the slushbox? You'll still be clutchless and at least you won't have to worry about unpredictable up and down shifts. In a high powered Cobra, you want to make sure you're in full control. With all that torque, a surprise shift while negotiating a sharp turn, changing lanes to pass or accelerating on a damp off ramp could ruin your day in a real big hurry my friend.

At the end of the day - you've spent a load of money and endured an interminable wait. You've come this far, so make sure it isn't all for naught. Salvage your dream. Just like that transmission controller, you need to reprogram. Chalk up these first drives to research and development. Focus on the aspects of the car you liked and make sure they are kept or enhanced. Make them eliminate or improve the things you didn't like. Finally, try again to look forward with enthusiasm to the day you get your hands on your Cobra all sorted and ready to enjoy.

[marcocsx3121]

Convert it to a manual transmission.

[patrickt]

This might not be as big a deal as you think. Yes, I know it's a huge PITA and disappointment, but it happens. IMO, he should have put more miles on the car before he delivered it to you. For something to happen that quick, the only thing that comes to mind is a failure to tighten something up properly or a failure to put the proper part on in the first place. When you say "smoke was coming out of the engine," can you be more specific? Front of the engine? Back by the firewall? Coming off the primary pipes? Did you happen to look at your gauges to see what your temperature and oil pressure were? Hang in there. The nice thing about these cars is that they're basically pretty easy to fix once you figure out what's broken. And when you have a really bad noise and smoke, it's usually pretty easy to figure it out.

[csx4910]

Either Way Voss performance should pay for the cost of transport and make it right or I would warn all others to stay away. Unfortunately, my dealer/installer went out of business so they were off the hook for having to deal with all the problems I had so make sure they stay in contact with you of waht they find. Dont assume they will call you. Good Luck

[twobjshelbys]

I thought I warned you about the Roush fuel injection... If you have the Accel DFI system you're in for a rough ride getting it tuned. Once you do though....

I was at a car show this morning and on the way back I decided I needed to blow the cobwebs out of the muffler. I went do my favorite acceleration lane which was my DFI test strip. It ran great.....

Before I hit the end of the merge lane in first I hit the red line which was never possible before last summer's exercise. I was going 65 or so. Oh, up hill....

By the time I shifted from second to third I was going 95 at about 5500rpm. Up hill. 6000' altitude.

It rips but man it was an up hill battle (every pun intended) to get the system set up to where it works.

The spiders are dead though.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I thought I warned you about the Roush fuel injection...

Well, whatever it was that locked up his trans and engine, it tweren't the fuel injection. You know, I vaguely remember him telling me about the unusual flexplate and starter that had to be used, or an adaptor that had to be used with them, or something like that. The first one didn't work/fit, etc. and it took forever to get the pieces the builder needed. Yeah, I remember asking him "why can't your builder just order it from Summit?" I can't remember the answer, but it was complicated and didn't seem to make a lot of sense at the time, but WTF....

[tkb289]

tin-man,

I have been following the build of you bleck SPF and am really saddened to hear of the engine / transmission failure ... certainly not the way you wanted to start your Cobra adventure, that's for sure.

As the guys said, the SPF roller is awesome and rock solid, the motor and trans are bolt in pieces. I would sincerely hope and expect that the other parties involved will step up and resolve the issues.

Keep us posted and just think of how much fun it will be to drive your car once it's running as good as it looks

tkb

[DWRAT]

Sorry to hear Tinny,
Sounds like you just have a transmission problem.
If all else fails, I have a personal friend who owns Hughes Performance Transmissions and he will build a bullet proof transmission and install it for you.
He is located here in Phx.
Dan

[vettestr]

Hey Ratboy,
Which of the bro's do you know best?

I and the Cobra Gang met Tinner tonight, well the North siders anyway. We had a good time and took a few photos not to mention a T-shirt or two. Got a new Toy yet?

[DWRAT]

Originally Posted by vettestr

Hey Ratboy,
Which of the bro's do you know best?

I and the Cobra Gang met Tinner tonight, well the North siders anyway. We had a good time and took a few photos not to mention a T-shirt or two. Got a new Toy yet?

I know Jeff pretty well these days.
I have known him for years but now we are neighbors up north.
His sister has a place on my street also.
The only partner I don't know is his brother who is the race car driver.


No new toys for me. May be a long time before I have one.

[vettestr]

Sent you a PM

[xb-60]

Hey tin-man, just read the whole sorry story. Really sobering to hear the details. I really hope it's resolved quickly and you can look forward to some happy miles in that unique retirement present!
Best wishes, John.
Cheers,
Glen

[Tom Wells]

John,

Sorry 'bout that!

Been there, done that.

My Ford crate motor failed at 812 miles, eating a distributor gear/bearings/cam etc. NO compensation from Ford I've had four automatic transmissions - the first three failed. Und so weiter...

I found a guy who knows how to build an automatic: Carl Rossler in Ohio. I had the engine redone by Leggett Engine Research in MD.

Since then I've had more than 25,000 grin-filled miles.

So hang in there, know that this is sometimes a test to see if you really want to do this.

Bottom line: it is worth it!

Tom

[65SC]

Originally Posted by csx4910

Either Way Voss performance should pay for the cost of transport and make it right or I would warn all others to stay away. Unfortunately, my dealer/installer went out of business so they were off the hook for having to deal with all the problems I had so make sure they stay in contact with you of waht they find. Dont assume they will call you. Good Luck

same here, spent $$$$ to get 4970 sorted out

[tin-man]

I do thank you guys for the morale support, yes, it’s more than a major disappointment for me after waiting so long, travelling half way around the world, driving 1600 miles and then to have this happen after only driving the car for 27 miles in Phoenix. Yep, it’s a horror story ok and does not say too much for the engine and transmission manufacturers involved to allow such a condition to exist. I am using very kind words here since it will be interesting to learn what caused the failure to occur. I am concluding Voss will be able to peel this one back and discover the root cause of the failure.

After talking to several people however there is much focus on the linkage between the Roush 511 engine and Bowler automatic transmission, the high idle rate and the methodology of assembly. While this is just speculation at this time and I must wait for confirmation, it does have credibility and merit given there were issues associated with these linkage components having incorrect bolt hole patterns discovered during the installation process as corroborated by several emails between Voss and Roush.

After reviewing these emails and endeavoring to make sense out of what happened, I cannot help but wonder why Roush failed to provide the correct components when the engine was first shipped to Voss and only after discovery by Voss of the bolt hole mismatch did Roush supply a second set of components. I am a reasonable person, but it makes me just wonder how this could have been allowed to happen.

While these events make a compelling argument for speculative judgment about fit and function and probable cause, I need wait until Voss finalizes the root cause failure analysis sometime next week.

I will keep you informed.

tin-man

[RET_COP]

I never really thought about the problems an auto trans could cause in these cars but BUZZ gave some great advice on manually controlling the possibility of up shifting and downshifting automatically at the wrong time !!!

Tin, the smoke is throwing me off here. Where, what kind of smell, how long??
I was ready to say the coupling between the engine and the trans until that clue. Engine and trans at the same time?? no way. Flexplate break loose and cut the back of the oil pan? Was the smoke a transmission oil smell?
I hope this fix goes smooth and please keep us posted.
Lou

[Tom Wells]

Buzz,

You said

One thought - have you considered (if it's even possible) putting a manual valve body in the slushbox? You'll still be clutchless and at least you won't have to worry about unpredictable up and down shifts. In a high powered Cobra, you want to make sure you're in full control. With all that torque, a surprise shift while negotiating a sharp turn, changing lanes to pass or accelerating on a damp off ramp could ruin your day in a real big hurry my friend.

Is this based on experience, or is it speculation?

I've run my automatic at Sebring, Daytona, Gainesville, Roebling Road and others for literally hours at my limit without any difficulties induced by a "surprise shift."

I have had, um, unexpected directional excursions but none could in any way be linked to the trans - only to my lack of skill!

I'm curious as to what experience(s) you may have had that prompted you to make this remark. Seems to me the incidents you propose as dangerous could also be accomplished with a stick shift, and seem to involve accelerating in inappropriate circumstances not related to the type of trans.

Can you enlighten me?

Tom