DragonSnake Cobra: CSX2416

[Don]

" VINTAGE: Rare DragonSnake Cobra Found " CSX2416

" Stored for more than 30 years, the factory-prepped drag racer is one of just two equipped with the ultra-rare 325-horsepower Shelby competition engine. "
SPEED Staff | Posted August 29, 2012 Carlsbad, CA "


VINTAGE: Rare DragonSnake Cobra Found

[SunDude]

So has it been positively proven/established that CSX2416 is the second of two Stage III Dragon Snakes, along with CSX2427 that was shown at the Shelby Heritage Display at Laguna Seca? That's what the article seems to say.

[Nedsel]

The one and only handwritten Shelby American vehicle accounting ledger is in the hands of SAAC, and it clearly notes at the top of the 2416 page, "Prepare Frye's Ford Drag Car." That, coupled with the car's build costs and options, pretty clearly spells out how the car was built at Shelby American, and for what purpose.

[mdross1]

And like so many ultra rare collectables once it has run the gamut of media frenzy it will end up back in a show room out of view of the common man.Just part of the reason why kit cars are so popular,making copies of these rare and beautiful pieces of history available to we enthusiasts that would never be able to own such valuable machinery.

[bwcobra15]

Originally Posted by mdross1

And like so many ultra rare collectables once it has run the gamut of media frenzy it will end up back in a show room out of view of the common man.Just part of the reason why kit cars are so popular,making copies of these rare and beautiful pieces of history available to we enthusiasts that would never be able to own such valuable machinery.

Actually I know the owner of CSX2416 and he is restoring it to original specs, and will be racing it. He was originally going to restore it do drive on the street, but then discovered the provenance of being an original factory dragonsnake.

He also owns one of the six original King Cobras (cooper monaco chassis) and an original '66 GT350 and actively races them all on the NASA circuit.

[Hal Heindel]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

The one and only handwritten Shelby American vehicle accounting ledger is in the hands of SAAC, and it clearly notes at the top of the 2416 page, "Prepare Frye's Ford Drag Car." That, coupled with the car's build costs and options, pretty clearly spells out how the car was built at Shelby American, and for what purpose.

That being the case, Ned, we may have to revisit just how many "Dragon Snakes" were built. Based on your post, there's little doubt CSX2416 was built as a drag car. On the other hand, I always thought Dragon Snakes were sold as such, since that's how they were marketed and advertised. To my knowledge, the term was never trademarked, so does that make any drag car sold by Shelby a Dragon Snake? And if CSX2416 is promoted as "one of the six Dragonsnakes ever built," which of the six now at www.shelbyford.com do we eliminate? Or do we increase the number built to seven?

Not being facetious here. Having sold CSX2019, the first of the two factory-campaigned Dragon Snakes, I no longer have a stake in maintaining the car's value. However, I do intend to protect the integrity of the brand. FYI, see the attached ad for the correct "Dragon Snake" spelling. Just out of curiosity, did CSX2416 leave the factory with a hardtop, drag shocks, modified springs, slicks, and different size wheels front and rear? These are all part of the specs listed in the ad, and what makes a drag car a Dragon Snake.

I'm currently giving the ShelbyFord website a makeover. Would be helpful to include the most up-to-date info. You're the acknowledged authority.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Hal Heindel

That being the case, Ned, we may have to revisit just how many "Dragon Snakes" were built. Based on your post, there's little doubt CSX2416 was built as a drag car. On the other hand, I always thought Dragon Snakes were sold as such, since that's how they were marketed and advertised. To my knowledge, the term was never trademarked, so does that make any drag car sold by Shelby a Dragon Snake? And if CSX2416 is promoted as "one of the six Dragonsnakes ever built," which of the six now at www.shelbyford.com do we eliminate? Or do we increase the number built to seven?

Not being facetious here. Having sold CSX2019, the first of the two factory-campaigned Dragon Snakes, I no longer have a stake in maintaining the car's value. However, I still want to protect the integrity of the brand. FYI, see the attached ad for the correct "Dragon Snake" spelling. Just out of curiosity, did CSX2416 leave the factory with a hardtop, drag shocks, modified springs, slicks, and different size wheels front and rear? These are all part of the specs listed in the ad, and what makes a drag car a Dragon Snake.

I'm currently giving the ShelbyFord website a makeover. Would be helpful to include the most up-to-date info. You're the acknowledged authority.

Hal, while the factory drag Cobras used specific similar options, the "Dragon Snake" concept allowed for some individualism when customers placed an order. Hence, different cars received varying equipment, and - since the Shelby American paperwork didn't always list specifics- it is impossible to know exactly which cars were equipped with what options, as in most cases they were not called out on the billing invoices.

2019 and 2357 were, as you know, factory race cars, and were sold used to their initial retail buyers, and 2093 was a converted street car. None of these three, therefore, ever had a factory invoice detailing precisely what equipment they were given. One might assume the equipment listed in the limited advertising for the Dragon Snake describes how the factory set up their own cars, but the customer cars were ordered individually and given whatever parts the customer wanted. And these differed between the cars.

Additionally, the sales invoices weren't at all consistent in how they called out the cars: 2248 was simply listed as a "Cobra Ford" with no mention of modified shocks, springs, or a hardtop; 2427 was simply called a "racer" at an inclusive price of $8695; and 2472 was called a "Drag Car" on the invoice, priced at $7,660.82, and equipped with the "Stage II" engine and Koni shocks. 2416 was invoiced as a "Cobra Ford" but with a Stage III 289 engine with Webers and a special cold air box and exhaust system. We would not have known it was a drag unit but for the internal build records, which detail the cost of building the "Frye's Ford drag car" and reflect a price substantially higher than that of a street car. (The internal build records for 2019 list it as a PR car, 2248 has no notations at all beyond the costs, 2357 is listed as "Cobra Drag Car," 2427 is headed "Build Dragon snake for Richard Guise," and 2472 says "Build Hugas drag car." The 3198 record calls it a "Cobra Drag Unit.")

Even though we have no knowledge as to whether 2472 or 2416 were ever actually drag-raced, the factory records indicate that there were 6 small block Cobras built and sold as drag cars, i.e. Dragon Snakes, along with 1 427 example, and I think the website should reflect this fact.

[Hal Heindel]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

The internal build records for 2019 list it as a PR car, 2248 has no notations at all beyond the costs, 2357 is listed as "Cobra Drag Car," 2427 is headed "Build Dragon snake for Richard Guise," and 2472 says "Build Hugas drag car." The 3198 record calls it a "Cobra Drag Unit."

Ned, I'm in almost total agreement with what you're saying except for this:

1. CSX2019 was initially built as a PR car but was invoiced by the factory as a "COBRA drag car" (see the attached). I also have a complete and detailed list of all the modifications made to it by the Shelby team under Leonard Parsons (some of those specs are attached - I can post the rest on the new website).

2. CSX2248 may not have notations on the invoice, but in my conversations with Hans Schmidt who bought and raced the car as "El Cid," the car was specifically ordered as a drag car, complete with scattershield and M&H drag slicks. See SAAC Registry - Dragonsnake 2248. It's possible Hans ordered the car before Shelby started advertising drag cars as Dragon Snakes. I'll have to dig through my pile of drag racing magazine to find the date of the ad.

3. As you've indicated, the remaining four cars were invoiced as either drag cars or drag units. And all were ordered for drag racing.

What bothers me with CSX2416 isn't so much what's missing on the invoice (such as the word "drag"), but what's included. As everyone knows, in drag racing, weight is the enemy. Every pound counts. So what dimwit custom orders a car specifically for drag racing with the following options:

Front grille guard, $24.00
Rear bumper guard, $ 30.00
Exhaust pipe tips, $7.00
Wind wings, $16.00
Sun visors, $13.50
Heater, $66.50
Radio and antenna, $45.50
Sway bars, $104.80
Polished mag wheels, $390.20

... then decides not to order pin-drive wheels with M&H slicks and the mandatory scattershield. And maybe a Sun tach. All of which were on Shelby's options list. The guys who dragraced Cobras back then all knew that the combination of 350+ HP and super sticky slicks quickly made mincemeat out of splines.

You mentioned that the handwritten accounting ledger states "Prepare Frye's Ford Drag Car." I'm assuming that's when the car was sent back to the factory for a repaint. According to the Registry, the Cobra was originally sold to Pete's Ford, who later changed their name to Frye. Any idea what's on the original 2416 ledger, or is that the only record there is?

Incidentally, CSX2472 also came with a heater and radio. Go figure!

[Hal Heindel]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

... the factory records indicate that there were 6 small block Cobras built and sold as drag cars, i.e. Dragon Snakes, along with 1 427 example.

Ned, on what page in the nice new leatherbound 1,618-page World Registry might I find that?

Thanks,
Hal

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Hal Heindel

Ned, on what page in the nice new leatherbound 1,618-page World Registry might I find that?

Thanks,
Hal

That is not in the registry; it is based on the various pieces of factory paperwork I discussed earlier.

As for the paperwork on 2019 you illustrate, I agree the car was sold by Coventry as a drag car - which we knew it was - however the factory build sheet does not make any reference to it as such, nor was there an invoice from Shelby American to Coventry Motors that we have found that calls out exactly what equipment was on the car when it was first sold.

[1985 CCX]

Sweet little car isn't it!

[mickmate]

Yup she's a beauty.

Right down to the period helmet!

[LMH]

I feel like I'm in the presence of two Cobra Gods!
Larry

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by LMH

I feel like I'm in the presence of two Cobra Gods!
Larry

Not hardly. Just two people who are passionate about the legacy of these cars and want their histories to be recorded truthfully and appropriately.

Hal, I agree with your thinking that a street car modified after the fact to a particular specification should not call itself something it is not. It still leaves some grey areas for cars that were clearly built by the factory as drag cars, but whose precise specifications were never fully documented in the day, with respect to their legitimate claim to the Dragon Snake moniker.

[Hal Heindel]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Not hardly. Just two people who are passionate about the legacy of these cars and want their histories to be recorded truthfully and appropriately.

Amen to that.

It still leaves some grey areas for cars that were clearly built by the factory as drag cars, but whose precise specifications were never fully documented in the day, with respect to their legitimate claim to the Dragon Snake moniker.

That's really at the core of it, Ned, especially when an authenticated Dragon Snake can easily bring twice as much (three times in the case of my car) than a sparsely documented wannabe.

My view of what makes a Cobra an authentic Dragon Snake is basically a distillation between factory specs and what SAAC says: " ... equipped with a specially built 289 Ford dragracing engine, slicks, wide base wheels, hardtop, and specially set up suspension" (Shelby) and " ... complete, turnkey drag cars" (SAAC). And you're right, that does leave grey areas for cars not specifically invoiced as "Dragon Snakes" or "Drag Cars".

The first thing I eliminate from that area is the engine. Shelby filed three engine combinations with NHRA. One of those was the stock 289/271 HP for D/SP. That means a Cobra equipped with the stock 289 could have been sold as a Dragon Snake.

Conversely, the fact that a Cobra was sold with a high output motor didn't automatically make it a Dragon Snake. People did buy high performance Cobras for the street. I commuted with mine for a while, and even made a few deliveries for the print shop I owned. All with the original Webers, high lift cam, 380+ HP, and a 2,040 lb pressure plate. What makes perfect sense when you're thirty tends to be somewhat less of a good idea in retrospect.

Next, the hardtop. Not a mandatory requirement back then for sanctioned drag racing, as long as you had a roll bar. It was either or, your choice. CSX2427, one of the six Dragon Snakes, competed with a soft top and a roll bar. That's her in the black and white attachment.

Finally, the special drag suspension. In light of Shelby's haphazard record keeping during the early years, having to prove that a car was delivered with altered leaf springs and drag shocks is probably asking too much.

That leaves slicks, wide base wheels, and something every drag car absolutely had to have, the mandatory scattershield. You didn't need it for stoplight drags, but you couldn't race without it. Scattershields don't have much of a personal preference factor ("I like mine in blue"), so if someone custom ordered a competition drag car, having a scattershield installed at the factory would have been a given.

That scattershield has to be documented. And since most cars ordered for road racing also came with scattershields, so do slicks on pin-drive mags to separate a drag racer from a road race car. Documentation can be in the form of an invoice or other factory record, or, if invoiced as a "Race Car" or "Racer," proof that the car competed in an NHRA sanctioned event.

Two simple requirements that qualify a Cobra as a "factory prepared turnkey drag car," i.e. a Dragon Snake. Not too much to ask to have spelled out somewhere, when what's at stake are a few hundred thousand extra dollars at the auction.

BTW, one thing I really wish the sporadic barn finders would refrain from is describe their car as "one of the six original Dragon Snakes." What gall! Which of the six authenticated cars do they want eliminated to make room for their discovery, or are they so mathematically challenged that 6+1 doesn't equal seven?

I guess it's the age we live in.

[LMH]

Were any of these cars originally bought as street cars but returned to SA for modification? Would they then be classified as "Factory Built" cars?
Larry

[Hal Heindel]

Originally Posted by LMH

Were any of these cars originally bought as street cars but returned to SA for modification? Would they then be classified as "Factory Built" cars?
Larry

Good question, Larry. I'll let Ned answer that. It could be an issue with CSX2416 when that car was returned for a respray. Was new paint the extent of it, or did the factory convert the car into a Dragon Snake at that point? Highly unlikely, since the invoice was for just $249.50, with the work described as "Repaint chassis 2416 '64 Ford Rangoon Red."

[Dwight]

thanks Hal and Ned for posting this information


Dwight

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by LMH

Were any of these cars originally bought as street cars but returned to SA for modification? Would they then be classified as "Factory Built" cars?
Larry

None of the drag cars were returned to Shelby for modification, but at least one street car was sent back to be converted into a road-race example, and that was CSX 2290. Following its rebuild, it was successfully raced by its owner(s) independent of the factory. And because the work was performed at the factory, it is considered a legitimate "factory-built" comp car, classified further as an "independent comp" since the factory itself did not race it. This car sold at a 2012 Monterey auction for $1.2 million.

[Hal Heindel]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

None of the drag cars were returned to Shelby for modification.

Good to know.

... at least one street car was sent back to be converted into a road-race example, and that was CSX 2290. Following its rebuild, it was successfully raced by its owner(s) independent of the factory. And because the work was performed at the factory, it is considered a legitimate "factory-built" comp car, classified further as an "independent comp" since the factory itself did not race it. This car sold at a 2012 Monterey auction for $1.2 million.

I couldn't agree more with you and, by extension, SAAC on that classification. Had CSX2019 been sold to Randy Berry as a PR and movie car, then returned by Randy to the factory for conversion into a Dragon Snake, the car should absolutely have been classified as a legitimate factory-built, independent comp "Dragon Snake."

Thanks, Ned, for the official clarification.