Lubricant for Pin Drive spinner

[Rick Parker]

If anyone thinks that the drive torque can be transfered only by the clamping force against the hub then I say remove them, use 1/2" diameter counter sink machine screws to hold the hold the adapter to the axle flange and save the weight! If it could be done, the F-1 guys would have devised a way to do it long ago. The studs, pins, or sleeve nuts are in shear and transfer the twisting torque to the wheels. The first 289's had splined adapters the splines ultimately were deemed insufficient when HP and torque were increased and the studs were adapted from other racing fitaments. You couldn't clamp the wheels tight enough otherwise. Any takers?

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

If anyone thinks that the drive torque can be transfered only by the clamping force against the hub then I say remove them, use 1/2" diameter counter sink machine screws to hold the hold the adapter to the axle flange and save the weight! If it could be done, the F-1 guys would have devised a way to do it long ago. The studs, pins, or sleeve nuts are in shear and transfer the twisting torque to the wheels. The first 289's had splined adapters the splines ultimately were deemed insufficient when HP and torque were increased and the studs were adapted from other racing fitaments. You couldn't clamp the wheels tight enough otherwise. Any takers?

I know of two recent cases where the drive pins on a Cobra were sheared off because the knock off was either not torqued properly or there was lubricant on the mating surfaces. You need the pins and the clamp load to retain the wheel.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

I know of two recent cases where the drive pins on a Cobra were sheared off because the knock off was either not torqued properly or there was lubricant on the mating surfaces. You need the pins and the clamp load to retain the wheel.

I think you need the two to work together. The wheel would never be able to take the torque from the axle w/o the pins. However, the wheel needs to be held tight against the hub or the shock of applied torque would sheer the pins off.
Larry

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

I know of two recent cases where the drive pins on a Cobra were sheared off because the knock off was either not torqued properly or there was lubricant on the mating surfaces.

Uhhh, did these cases involve the cheesy five pin jobs, that only look the same when the wheel is on, or the nice six pin stuff?

[Cobra #3170]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Uhhh, did these cases involve the cheesy five pin jobs, that only look the same when the wheel is on, or the nice six pin stuff?

These cases were on Original Cobras with hardened 1/2" pins on 6 pin wheels, and the wheels did not come off after shearing the pins. I agree the 5 pin stuff is garbage.

[ACademic]

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170

the 5 pin stuff is garbage.

Please educate me. Structurally speaking, wouldn't adding another hole to the wheel hub actually weaken it? And if six is truly superior to five, then how come every OEM, including the 200mph cars (ZR1) still use five lug nuts instead of six? Maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges (lugs vs. pins clamped by a central spinner), but I'm all ears.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ACademic

Please educate me. Structurally speaking, wouldn't adding another hole to the wheel hub actually weaken it? And if six is truly superior to five, then how come every OEM, including the 200mph cars (ZR1) still use five lug nuts instead of six? Maybe I'm comparing apples and oranges (lugs vs. pins clamped by a central spinner), but I'm all ears.

The problem is not six versus five, with six being better/stronger. Rather, the problem is with the mechanism that turns bolt-ons in to apparent pin drives. Six lugs are probably about the same as five lugs; six pins are probably about the same as five pins. Bolt-ons that are kludged in to appearing that they are pin drives are inferior because of the kludge. They are, in other words, a cur.

[ACademic]

Originally Posted by patrickt

The problem is not six versus five, with six being better/stronger. Rather, the problem is with the mechanism that turns bolt-ons in to apparent pin drives. Six lugs are probably about the same as five lugs; six pins are probably about the same as five pins. Bolt-ons that are kludged in to appearing that they are pin drives are inferior because of the kludge. They are, in other words, a cur.

I asked 3170, not you. I want a real answer. Nice try, rook.

[KevinW]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

If anyone thinks that the drive torque can be transfered only by the clamping force against the hub then I say remove them, use 1/2" diameter counter sink machine screws to hold the hold the adapter to the axle flange and save the weight! If it could be done, the F-1 guys would have devised a way to do it long ago. The studs, pins, or sleeve nuts are in shear and transfer the twisting torque to the wheels. The first 289's had splined adapters the splines ultimately were deemed insufficient when HP and torque were increased and the studs were adapted from other racing fitaments. You couldn't clamp the wheels tight enough otherwise. Any takers?

I dont profess to think, I just asked a question!
anyhow, isnt the machine screw suggestion the preferred solution on Vintage Wheels now?

I think the 289 wheels are a different set up to the 427 wheels - these failed, ultimately, i read, for a variety of reasons. But I have an idea from somewhere that part of this is that the wire wheels had a smaller clamping area, mainly on the splines, rather than the rear wheel face:hub face. Happy to be corrected if I am wrong.