Originally Posted by 1ntCobra (Post 1257692)

Yes, I realize I'm quoting myself, ... but maybe I can help us get back to the subject at hand, or at least my take on it. :LOL:

Let's forget about the adjectives like "real", "genuine", "original", "component", , "continuation", "completion", "replica", etc.

Shelby American sells a car today that they are legally entitled to call a "Shelby Cobra". It is similar to the cars they sold in the 1960s, but it is a brand new car. They have raised the price on the aluminum version of that car and continue to do so.

My thought is perhaps they might some day price themselves out of the market. And maybe that some day is now?

When comparing a brand new aluminum "Shelby Cobra" to a brand new aluminum competitor's car, like a Kirkham. There are certainly things to consider, since both are different in a number of ways:

- Components: more original style suspension versus light weight billet suspension, gauges, head light trim rings, side pipes, etc.
- Paint: painted versus non-painted
- Option Cost: cost of stripes, cost of polished finish, etc.
- Brand Name: "Shelby" brand name and serial number versus not a Shelby
- Customer Service

Although the Kirkham is in the SAAC registry, at some point I got the impression it is more there to keep track a car that can easily be confused with a modern day (or even an original) Shelby Cobra, then for it to be there to acknowledge it as a legitimate Cobra. So even though Kirkhams are in the registry, that does not really do much for me.

Now I don't have a bunch of money burning a hole in my pocket to buy either a current generation Shelby Cobra or a Kirkham, but if I did have the money, I suppose there would be a certain premium price that I would consider paying extra for a completed running Shelby Cobra over a similarly equipped completed running Kirkham (painted with original style suspension). But if we are talking $200k versus $100k for completed running cars, I think the 100% premium markup for the Shelby is not worth it to me personally.

Now Evan got into the game with his car years ago when the markup was not as big. Evan what would you do today? Would you still buy the Shelby Cobra today over an identical Kirkham just for the Shelby brand name and CSX serial number considering today's price difference?

At some price point, Shelby could price themselves out of the market. Just consider the extreme case, they could raise the price of a brand new Shelby Cobra to more than the going price of a 1960's Shelby Cobra. At that point, you might as well just buy an original. It would be just as expensive to insure and worry about crashing.

And after all didn't Shelby price themselves out of the market before with the "completion" series at $500k? The answer to that was to start the "continuation" series. I suppose if they price themselves out of the market again, they just have to come up with a new series name at a lower price point. Hmm, I wonder what they would call it, maybe "perpetuation" series? :JEKYLHYDE

Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1257706)

I'm staying away from the "other" discussion, since that is a red herring.

As for Shelby pricing, as you know, the roller pricing of any manufacturer will likely affect the pricing of all the other manufacturers. The Kirkham's were planning an increase too and, IIRC, Superformance has recently increased their roller price as well. The laws of economics control the free markets. I personally think Shelby has reached the point where their market is maybe a few small select "drunken sailors." :LOL: No really, I think the market is very thin at that level, if there even is one. Plus, you have to wait more than a year to get it?

And there are several alloy CSX4000's running around on the market for way less than $200K like these two examples ASKING about $170,000-$175,000:

Shelby Cobra For Sale - duPont REGISTRY

I'm a subscriber to Keith Martin's Sports Car Market magazine, which reports auction prices from around the world for all sorts of marques. And I can't remember too many alloy CSX's trading above $150K. I just got my new issue, so maybe they'll have one or two in it this issue and I'll get back to this thread with that info.

Originally Posted by OnyxRider (Post 1257733)

Hey I was curious what the numbers on the secondary market run, you find any?

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys (Post 1257751)

Why is it that every time some one mentions a Shelby CSX car it degenerates into this same topic? I started reading about a price increase and once again it's back to the same old and tired run on with the same people saying the same things and adding nothing new.

About the price increase: The price of a finished roller was at one time tracking very well to the price of a Ford GT. But today a low miles Heritage sold for 377500, so now the GT has been redefined once again. People are now paying 30K more for a red car than I paid for my heritage in the fall of 2011. If you're going to buy another GT, buy it now or wait for the GT market to crash. I suspect if you do the latter you'll wait for a long time and you won't see the prices from two years ago.

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys (Post 1257751)

Why is it that every time some one mentions a Shelby CSX car it degenerates into this same topic? I started reading about a price increase and once again it's back to the same old and tired run on with the same people saying the same things and adding nothing new.

About the price increase: The price of a finished roller was at one time tracking very well to the price of a Ford GT. But today a low miles Heritage sold for 377500, so now the GT has been redefined once again. People are now paying 30K more for a red car than I paid for my heritage in the fall of 2011. If you're going to buy another GT, buy it now or wait for the GT market to crash. I suspect if you do the latter you'll wait for a long time and you won't see the prices from two years ago.

Originally Posted by RodKnock (Post 1257717)

We don't know if the alleged price increase will affect anything whatsoever. Markets values could drop, increase as you say, or just remain the same.

Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1257773)

True. We don't know for sure but logic would seem to indicate that if the cost of a new Shelby alloy rolling stock chasis is $160K the value of existing well finished aluminum Shelbys would be in excess of that number especially when the time tables for delivery of new rolling stock is a year to 18 months out.

As long as there is sufficient demand Shelby will build cars. Admittedly demand is limited to a very narrow niche market but if they are selling new aluminum rolling stock and there are buyers at $160k, there you have it. Values have gone up on alloy continuation Cobras as completed Continuation Cobras are clearly $210K+.

Don't know much about CSX4371 (will look in the Registry) however, it clearly didn't sell at $130K nor at $189k. Now when the cost of just rolling stock hits $160k seems like that $189k price is more attractive when you will need another $20k on top of the $189k to finish new rolling stock priced at $160k. My view of it. When the cost of new rolling stock was $140k that $189k seems a stretch.

Bretewing: Any time you want give away and get rid of all that signed Shelby "crap" just PM me and I'll pay the shipping to my home. Glad to help.
While you may not see the value in a CSX rolling stock at $160k I'm willing to be there are those that will. When every agrees with you the prices will drop. When there are people that see the value and buy the price will remain and increase until that plateau is reached at any point in time which is always subject to change as markets do either up or down.

Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1257773)

As long as there is sufficient demand Shelby will build cars.

Originally Posted by mrmustang (Post 1257728)

Robo signing is now taking place, duly authorized by the estate of C.S. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170 (Post 1257779)

My GT will analiate any Cobra on a road course including mine with the ac on and the windows up. Those folks interested in attention would also like that factor as well compared with a Cobra.

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170 (Post 1257779)

Any time a replica gets over 180k it is time to look at a Ford GT, why in the world would anyone pay that much for a car that does not do anything very well other than trying to kill you? My GT will analiate any Cobra on a road course including mine with the ac on and the windows up. Those folks interested in attention would also like that factor as well compared with a Cobra.

Originally Posted by fordracing65 (Post 1257574)

Anybody want POPCORN, I'm buying...:JEKYLHYDE

Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1257860)

...and there are always those in the "peanut" gallery throwing their little stones. :LOL: Many times fueled by petty envy. ;)

Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1257847)

Because the original series Cobras are selling for way more starting at at least $500K. When you can still buy a continuation Cobra for several hundred thousand less thats why they sell and guys invest $100k++ in the Shelbys. Plus while the FGT is a superior car performance wise as you would expect it to be for many reasons the Cobra is a special breed and has a special appeal that has transcended generations. Would I love an original, you bet but am I happy with my Continuation Series Cobra?. You bet especially since they are clearly holding value if not increasing. Its rare you can actually buy something you love, drive, use it and see it maintain the initial investment if not return more and provide an opprotunity to do more so in the future.

Rodknock: Of course. Its axiomatic that demand is a key component in setting market value. Thats a given.

Originally Posted by Cobra #3170 (Post 1257886)

You are dreaming if you think a continuation Cobra will out pace a Ford GT in appreciation over the years.