Here's An Interesting CSX4000 (or is it)?

[RodKnock]

Just listed. No affiliation (Kirkham is selling), but this one has an interesting story and blurs the line IMHO:

"This is a complete, beautifully-running Shelby 427S/C Cobra, Serial# CSX4308.

In 2004 we [i.e., Kirkham Motorsports] first sold the rolling chassis to Shelby, who built it up with their parts and components into a standard Shelby roller.

We later received it back in trade. We finished assembling the car, installing a aluminum Shelby 427-based engine (Keith Craft 482 cid stroker) and a Tremec TKO 600 5-speed transmission. It then spent two years on display in the front lobby of AMD world headquarters in Silicone Valley.

This silver bullet is virtually brand-new, with only 2.6 miles [4.2 km... smile] on the odometer."

http://www.cobracountry.com/cobra4sa...b-1296x778.jpg

$175,000 for a Shelby-Kirkham.

[itstock]

It has the Shelby name attached to it. And an interesting story.

Can all Kirkham owners say that? Why is there so much hate from the Kirkham owners towards the CSX continuations or cars genuinely associated with what the Kirkham is replicating...Shelby?

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by itstock

It has the Shelby name attached to it. And an interesting story.

Can all Kirkham owners say that? Why is there so much hate from the Kirkham owners towards the CSX continuations or cars genuinely associated with what the Kirkham is replicating...Shelby?

Because there the same cars, and one is being perpetrated as a REAL Cobra, guess which one it is..., it's not hate but more joshing with each other...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Because there the same cars, and one is being perpetrated as a REAL Cobra, guess which one it is..., it's not hate but more joshing with each other...

They're NOT the same cars. The Kirkham's are built by the same craftsmen in same location since their inception.

Personally, I think this CSX should be valued more than most any other CSX because it was finished by KMP.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by itstock

It has the Shelby name attached to it. And an interesting story.

Can all Kirkham owners say that? Why is there so much hate from the Kirkham owners towards the CSX continuations or cars genuinely associated with what the Kirkham is replicating...Shelby?

I don't think there is much hate from Kirkham owners directed at continuation CSX cars. Owners of CSX cars pay more for the Shelby name but that's their business. That's been my experience.

You do know that Shelby gets bodies/chassis from Kirkham don't you?
Larry

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Because there the same cars, and one is being perpetrated as a REAL Cobra, guess which one it is..., it's not hate but more joshing with each other...

While no one is perpetrating anything and while you are clearly entitled to your opinion it nevertheless matters diddly. I refer you to the new World Registry of Cobras and GT40s. You do have one don't you? Furthermore you will find Kirkhams as accepted (or as you put it "perpetrated") by SAAC as genuine Cobras. It's all in there. You just have to read to escape ignorance.

At $175K that car is IMHO a bargain with new aluminum rolling chassis hitting $160k.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

At $175K that car is IMHO a bargain with new aluminum rolling chassis hitting $160k.

Then it should sell quickly.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

While no one is perpetrating anything and while you are clearly entitled to your opinion it nevertheless matters diddly. I refer you to the new World Registry of Cobras and GT40s. You do have one don't you? Furthermore you will find Kirkhams as accepted (or as you put it "perpetrated") by SAAC as genuine Cobras. It's all in there. You just have to read to escape ignorance.

At $175K that car is IMHO a bargain with new aluminum rolling chassis hitting $160k.

If SAAC says Kirkhams are Genuine Cobras then how is yours REAL, if mine is considered a REAL1 then paying $100,000 for a Cobra that is considered in the same category as mine I have a bridge to sell you, and I'll give you a great deal considering if you bought a CSX today you would be $100,000 light, compared to the same Genuine car according to SAAC... And I do have a registry but I have it only to learn and read about REAL cobras not Kirkhams or continuation CSX cars...

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

If SAAC says Kirkhams are Genuine Cobras then how is yours REAL, if mine is considered a REAL1 then paying $100,000 for a Cobra that is considered in the same category as mine I have a bridge to sell you, and I'll give you a great deal considering if you bought a CSX today you would be $100,000 light, compared to the same Genuine car according to SAAC... And I do have a registry but I have it only to learn and read about REAL cobras not Kirkhams or continuation CSX cars...

Well, since you haven't read nor apparently intend to read the Registry except for the sections dealing with the originals you have missed out on about 1000 pages of information pertinent to the originals and the other cars accepted into the World "Registry". It is called the "Registry" for a reason. It identifies those car considered authentic in what they purport to be i.e. Cobras, GT40s, Daytonas, FGTs. These cars have been accepted by SAAC the worlds leading authority on what is and isn't an authentic Cobra, GT40 etc...You may of course have your own opinion to which you are entitled but your opinion amounts to and amounted to diddly as far as what SAAC has included in the world of authentic items and it is SAAC that the majority of the world turns to as the authority on these cars for information and recognition.

Perhaps if you took a perusal through some of those other pages you might enlighten yourself. No one is trying to pass non original Cobras off as original. That would be "perpetrating a fraud". However, the facts are clear and easy to understand (well for most).

There is clear parallel between Kirkham and Shelby as there was between AC and Shelby back then. Original AC Cobras do not garner near the prices as the original Shelbys while both are original Cobras none the less. Why? I suspect it has to do with the Shelby DNA. Why do Continuation Shelby garner more money than Kirkham Cobras when they both have been accepted by SAAC as authentic Cobras? Again, I suspect it is Shelby DNA. Something about touching Shelby American terra ferma does something to the essence of these cars that people want. While some poo poo it (like you) clearly the consensus as proven by the market proves that added value and desireabity.

Kirkhams are special cars. They have been placed in the Registry and rightfully so. They are exquisite in their detail and craftsmanship. Actually, they are better then what AC produced back in the 60's by a far shot. So good are they that restorers use Kirkham for restorations of originals. They are to the Continuation Series what AC was to the original.

However, I can't stop you from being self-deprecating. Feel free to continue. While you do not own an original, and neither do I you own an authentic Cobra. At least in my eyes and importantly in SAAC's view.

Should you change your view on matters you really should register your car with SAAC so it appears in the next Registry. I would if it were mine.

BTW I'm not in the market for a bridge.

Rodknock: I agree it should sell quickly. It is stunning! However, the market will decide it's value. I still think the price increase to $160K will help move that stunner at $175K. Who here can complete an aluminum rolling chassis with $15K?

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

While no one is perpetrating anything and while you are clearly entitled to your opinion it nevertheless matters diddly. I refer you to the new World Registry of Cobras and GT40s. You do have one don't you? Furthermore you will find Kirkhams as accepted (or as you put it "perpetrated") by SAAC as genuine Cobras. It's all in there. You just have to read to escape ignorance.

At $175K that car is IMHO a bargain with new aluminum rolling chassis hitting $160k.

This was stated by 1ntCobra on another thread. I think it's fair statement.

"Although the Kirkham is in the SAAC registry, at some point I got the impression it is more there to keep track a car that can easily be confused with a modern day (or even an original) Shelby Cobra, then for it to be there to acknowledge it as a legitimate Cobra. So even though Kirkhams are in the registry, that does not really do much for me."

I have a registry- one of the first ones with all the ORIGINAL/GENUINE Cobras and Shelby mustangs in it. Although I have not had the need to reference it in over 20 years I don't recalL Kirkham being in it. Not sure because it has been some time as stated and with hundreds of hand-written notes in there....and you know the binding(good job SAAC) was useless so most of the Cobra stuff became loose.

I mean they are not original/genuine so why do some have to explain what they have is original/genuine by all these terms. lol

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by OnyxRider

This was stated by 1ntCobra on another thread. I think it's fair statement.

"Although the Kirkham is in the SAAC registry, at some point I got the impression it is more there to keep track a car that can easily be confused with a modern day (or even an original) Shelby Cobra, then for it to be there to acknowledge it as a legitimate Cobra. So even though Kirkhams are in the registry, that does not really do much for me."

I have a registry- one of the first ones with all the ORIGINAL/GENUINE Cobras and Shelby mustangs in it. Although I have not had the need to reference it in over 20 years I don't recalL Kirkham being in it. Not sure because it has been some time as stated and with hundreds of hand-written notes in there....and you know the binding(good job SAAC) was useless so most of the Cobra stuff became loose.

I mean they are not original/genuine so why do some have to explain what they have is original/genuine by all these terms. lol

Kirkhams can be found in the 4th edition of the SAAC Cobra/GT40 specific registry. If you have a 20 year old registry, you should check out the new edition. It is a huge book with lots of good information.

I cannot recall exactly where I got the "impression" of why Kirkhams are in the new registry, but it was probably either here or maybe or over at the SAAC forum site. Since I don't have a reference to a forum posting or recall who may have said what I vaguely remember, I cannot back up my statement, which is why I called it an "impression".

I also seem to recall that Shelby was not too happy about Kirkhams in the SAAC registry during the legal mess between him and SAAC.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Because there the same cars, and one is being perpetrated as a REAL Cobra, guess which one it is..., it's not hate but more joshing with each other...

You may just be teasing Evan, but I have a strong suspicion that you know that an aluminum CSX is not the "same" as a Kirkham and that in your opinion that your light weight billet suspension car with an aluminum block motor is way better than his. On the other hand Evan is sure that his CSX with original iron block engine, shiny black paint and carefully placed hood rivets is way better than yours.

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Kirkhams can be found in the 4th edition of the SAAC Cobra/GT40 specific registry. If you have a 20 year old registry, you should check out the new edition. It is a huge book with lots of good information.

I cannot recall exactly where I got the "impression" of why Kirkhams are in the new registry, but it was probably either here or maybe or over at the SAAC forum site. Since I don't have a reference to a forum posting or recall who may have said what I vaguely remember, I cannot back up my statement, which is why I called it an "impression".

I also seem to recall that Shelby was not too happy about Kirkhams in the SAAC registry during the legal mess between him and SAAC.

I was not trying to drag you into anything just thought it was a fair statement. The rest of my post was for the other guys. lol I have a newer one on the shelf but never really opened it other to see that SAAC never corrected the mistakes I referenced to them(mostly omissions) from the first one. I think the original one must be 30 years old.

You quote came from this thread.

Aluminum Body Shelby Continuation rollers $160,000.00

[REAL 1]

Clearly things have changed since the first Registry. So has the world.

The new Registry provides information as to the current facts on the ground.

As to why the Kirkhams were included in the Registry. I don't know. But in the end they are and I think rightfully so.

You are free to disagree with that decision but the dye has been cast.

[maurice19]

I received paperwork from SAAC to include my Kirkham #318 in the Registry 4th edition.

My memory may be wrong , as I don`t have the papers to refresh my memory.

It stated the reason for inclusion was to keep count of the Kirkham Cars in order to avoid the possibility of fraud or confusion with the 60 s cars in the future.

Maurice

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

You may just be teasing Evan, but I have a strong suspicion that you know that an aluminum CSX is not the "same" as a Kirkham and that in your opinion that your light weight billet suspension car with an aluminum block motor is way better than his. On the other hand Evan is sure that his CSX with original iron block engine, shiny black paint and carefully placed hood rivets is way better than yours.

Nobodies car is better than the other, but a cobra body supplied by Kirkham for $100,000 more than my car is a joke to me, CALL ME CRAZY...

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by maurice19

I received paperwork from SAAC to include my Kirkham #318 in the Registry 4th edition.

My memory may be wrong , as I don`t have the papers to refresh my memory.

It stated the reason for inclusion was to keep count of the Kirkham Cars in order to avoid the possibility of fraud or confusion with the 60 s cars in the future.

Maurice

That is exactly why a Kirkham is in the book...to keep track...

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by maurice19

I received paperwork from SAAC to include my Kirkham #318 in the Registry 4th edition.

My memory may be wrong , as I don`t have the papers to refresh my memory.

It stated the reason for inclusion was to keep count of the Kirkham Cars in order to avoid the possibility of fraud or confusion with the 60 s cars in the future.

Maurice

That makes a lot of sense to keep track what is real and what some may think is real.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by OnyxRider

That makes a lot of sense to keep track what is real and what some may think is real.

Cause it would be a sham if a Kirkham sold for $200,000 while a continuation aluminum CSX might sell for $100,000, due to all the confusion.

[hurricaneharold]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

If SAAC says Kirkhams are Genuine Cobras then how is yours REAL, if mine is considered a REAL1 then paying $100,000 for a Cobra that is considered in the same category as mine I have a bridge to sell you, and I'll give you a great deal considering if you bought a CSX today you would be $100,000 light, compared to the same Genuine car according to SAAC... And I do have a registry but I have it only to learn and read about REAL cobras not Kirkhams or continuation CSX cars...

You know aswell as I do Kirkhams are listed in the Register to keep an eye on who owns which cars so the owners don't try to pull the wool over our eyes and call them genuine Cobras !

I have a Registry too ,infact I have two one from 2008 and one from 1987 are they genuine or could they be replica or continuation copies ?

You guys have made my evening !

"Originally Posted by OnyxRider View Post
That makes a lot of sense to keep track what is real and what some may think is real.

Cause it would be a sham if a Kirkham sold for $200,000 while a continuation aluminum CSX might sell for %100,000, due to all the confusion.
"