Drive line issues - need some ideas

[mjhcobra]

Raising the motor has the same affect as lowering the trans-my sidepipes start to point to the ground. Currently, they are parallel to the ground.

[mjhcobra]

Final check with the drive shaft out and the car on level blocks. Trans and diff both at exactly ZERO degrees on the angle meter. Each location checked on multiple surfaces - all are at ZERO, and yes the meter is bouncing, its not stuck on Zero.

Tomorrow after work I will begin by kicking up the pinion angle-not much else to move.

[CHANMADD]

Need to grind a little out of the front yoke for clearance.....its binding......a slight out of angle will just cause a vibration not binding..........it won't take much grinding......some yokes come from the factory with a bit ground out...........I dont think it will weaken much........if at all......

[Jerry Clayton]

sooooooooooooo----once again , side pipes wins out over drive line----------just remember that altho you may burn your leg on the side pipes, that drive shaft will tear off your ass

[patrickt]

I vote for parallel pipes along with a really strong driveshaft hoop.

[mjhcobra]

Jerry,

We talked at lunch today about adjusting the trans down and the pinion up.

Pinion up-easy.

Trans down-not so easy.

I can modify the trans bracket for the drop, find a thinner trans mount, or both.

The question is, can I cut the sidepipes loose at the flange and reweld at a level elevation???

Grinding/dishing the yoke and/or kicking up the pinion only, sure appears to be simpler.

Using a short pinion shaft might lengthen the drive shaft by 2".
Using the 1350 series 22 degree yoke/u-joint would provide more angle without dishing the yoke.

Back to my original question---what did EM miss here?? both locations at zero degrees, but not close to level.

[frdfver]

You ask what did EM miss? It still seems odd to me that your trans is zero. Is your carb mounting flange level? The type of engine mounts may have some bearing. A picture of the trans mount and the way the cross member is hooked to the frame may offer up some suggestions. Are the side pipes-headers coated, May be able to heat and massage to level after the drive shaft angle is solved. Using a jack how far to drop the trans to get the bind out of the shaft?

Paul T.

[mjhcobra]

Paul,

I believe the bevel on the PI intake was to level the carb out when it was in the police car as most aftermarket intake surfaces are pretty level.

My sidepipes are painted with a type of high heat paint, nothing special.

All of the articles that I have been told to read in this thread and others state that both pinion and trans angles should be equal (same degree) if not very close. EM got that part right as both are at zero and the sidepipes are perfect.

MAYBE EM expected the tire to be higher inside the wheel well or something along those lines, but this would require a shorter shock and I have used the shock length they require. This was verified by another EM member with the same shock and he has no issues at all in the 30K miles on his car (post from 2011 by me addressing same issue).

The trans mount is the standard stock 66 mustang mount and the bracket is a removable bracket made up of a u shaped bent plate boxed by two plates that bolt horizontally to a like mount on each side of the frame rails with no adjustment.

Since EM has been pretty quiet since their sale/move to Texas, there is really no assistance available unless I can find an EM car with my set up. So far, nobody has stepped up to comment.

When I did talk with EM after the move, the new owners knew absolutely nothing about the first 2 or 3 generations of EM cars. They could only comment on what they were building, which is a totally different generation of car. Independent rear, power disc brakes, longer wheel base, etc.

I will get another local "expert" driveline specialist opinion tomorrow.

[mjhcobra]

Today I met with two different drive line "experts" here in Tucson. Both reviewed the pics on this post, understood that the trans and pinion angles were at zero degrees, the trans could not drop without affecting the sidepipes, and that the driveshaft was at about 8 degrees. Both said to kick up the pinion before doing anything else. One suggested 3 degrees up to 5 degrees on the pinion. Both said that I should not experience any vibrations.

One suggested that a 2.5" diameter driveshaft ( mine is a 3" now) with a short pinion yoke would add length and u-joint clearance.

So, tomorrow after work, the pinion angle will change.

And yes, the hoop will be installed.

[CHANMADD]

Dude grind the fricking yoke.....your problem will be fixed........

[frdfver]

Although that differs from most text or schools of thought they are supposed to be the experts. Will 3-5 degrees alone at the pinion be enough to get the bind out and if it does at ride height will it still bind as the rear axle moves down through the suspension travel. If it works at least that’s easy and you don’t have to mess with the side pipes. Hope it works out for you with no vibration and the u joints hold up. I also would still put some clearance reliefs in the yoke just to be safe…..
Paul T.

[lcrabtree]

At least you can change it back when you try to take off and it's like driving across a washboard. That's what happened when I raised my pinion angle.

Lester

[mjhcobra]

Learning a lot about pinion and drive shaft angles to solve my issue. I adjusted the lower bars of the 4 link set up and it moved the pinion 2 or so degrees. I then adjusted the top bars the opposite direction and the pinion angle is now about 4 degrees. But the drive shaft angle is now about 3 or so degrees and the trans angle remains at 0 degrees. It is amazing what a few degrees on the pinion does to the shaft angle. With the car on level ground (on 10" level blocks) the drive shaft looks like it should. Will tighten up the bolts and test drive in the next day or so.

[COBRA427]

https://www.markwilliams.com/driveshafttech.aspx

[mjhcobra]

MW confirms what I have been told throughout his post, but the 3 local shops here in Tucson say to kick up the pinion since the trans cannot drop. Reviewing EM's manual, it states to set the pinion at 0 degrees for a big block and 3 degrees for a small block-no reason given. I will try what I have now, but may drop the pinion down a degree since I believe the drive shaft angle can handle another degree or two.

And yes, I will dish the yoke a little for added clearance.

[Rick Parker]

If the driveline has been worked on at somepoint (?) the input yoke may have been installed on the wrong end. It appears that there are different ends on the shaft itself that could be contributing to the binding issue. The end that is currently attached to the yoke looks like it belongs at the rear. This does not negate the need to get the angles correct and to be sure the joints themselves are moving freely.