Replica or a modern reproduction?

[Ralphy]

Evan, how ignorant and thick headed you are. When I'm asked what it is? I'd like to say it's an Everett Morrison. Then continue from there. But did you ever think even a car guy would know what a EM is? Evan, IMO most people try to define what they have only to relate to the unknowing public. Your sick and a fool! Just trying to get a rise because you own a SA. Go back to the SAAC board since it's evident you hate anything but a Shelby built Cobra. It bleeds from your postings, your first post started with attacks and you've never stopped. It's not seeking to justify, it's seeking to identify for non SA owners! If all the continuation owners are like you, "I'D BE PROUD TO NEVER OWN A CONTINUATION CAR."

Your words show no pride, just arrogance. You make SA owners look bad. You and your cronies are probably the ones who go around to shows and scream it's a replica rubbing your hands together. Your sick! I had just bought a SAAC poster one week before this thread, had it framed. Because of you, I'll never look at it the same. If I had any SAAC power would revoke your membership. I'd like to think your a one man freak show, but I think not. If your what I'm to expect there? I will not attend any SAAC events. Thanks for the heads up and saving my money. And I would encourage all other non SA owners to do the same.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Very interesting observation in seeing that the guys who are seeking justify their own "personal views" which are clearly intended to bring down something they don't own continually "like" each others posts. Just like you guys have your own mutual admiration club. You guys can't let facts get in the way of opinion now. That would ruin everything.:LOL

Ralphy

[mdross1]

Your words show no pride, just arrogance. You make SA owners look bad. You and your cronies are probably the ones who go around to shows and scream it's a replica rubbing your hands together. Your sick! I had just bought a SAAC poster one week before this thread, had it framed. Because of you, I'll never look at it the same. If I had any SAAC power would revoke your membership. I'd like to think your a one man freak show, but I think not. If your what I'm to expect there? I will not attend any SAAC events. Thanks for the heads up and saving my money. And I would encourage all other non SA owners to do the same.

Honestly have to agree with Ralphy, so many of our non original, non continuation cars were assembled with as much care for total performance as any in the Registary. I certainly understand the intense defense of that sacred doctrine and would hope that at an SAAC event would not feel like an outsider. Is it really worth all this?

In the end nothing that has been said so far has made me feel any less for my creation. Honestly, I feel more a part of a brotherhood with the majority of you that responded than I do with a small minority. Thank you

[REAL 1]

So, now you guys like the Registry? Now that an owner of an original series Cobra found a single paragraph buried near the end of the Section having nothing to with actually doing the work of the Registry (setting out the information and definitions of the Registry) but simply the Registry's evolution entitled "Evolution of the Registry" which is clearly diametrically opposed to the vast weight of whats written and stated clearly and concisely elsewhere in numerous other parts in the Registry in more than one respect including the the definitions and categories you guys are once again in love with the Registry

Now that you guys like the Registry let me guess which part, or which isolated paragraph buried at the end of a section on the Evolution of the Registry that you really like.

Also, I didn't say "error" I said inconsistent and diametrically opposed.

As Ned pointed out there was apparently some hard feelings between SAAC and Mr. Shelby in 2008 when the current Registry was being compiled and just a wild guess here..perhaps that necessarily included those at the top of SAAC and Mr. Shelby at the time when the new Registry was compiled. The tone of that paragraph buried near the end of that section to me clearly has a tone of sticking a thumb in Shelby's eye. Again, thats how it reads to me. But it clearly says what it says. I find it also unfair to Contnuation Cobra owners and insulting.

If this is SAAC's true attitude and position as stated by this one person they should have made it clear upfront and conspicuously and clear to owners of Contiuation Cobras what their true purpose and attitude was. If this is their attitude I doubt it will promote much cooperation from Continuation owners in the future.

Clearly, then SAAC needs to clarify or correct or reconcile somehow
that one paragraph written by the one person with the vast weight of what is stated elsewhere in the Registry which clearly also says what it says.

In the meantime, until SAAC clearly explains the inconsistency between that isolated paragraph (written by that one person at the top of an organization who clearly had editorial reign to say what he wanted if he was "editor in cheif" and as Ned alluded to whose organization was not exactly getting along with Shelby and in a bitter dispute with him at the time) with the numerous statements and the express information provided in numerous other pages by the hard working and dedicated contributors and entuhisasts which is the literal position of Registry and the preponderating view of the Registry and the position provided in specific dedicated sections dealing with the issue that clearly is the Registry's official position as I see it and not mere one persons view buried in a "non-working" part of the Registry.

Further, if what the was stated in that paragraph in the Evolution of the Registry Section is really the intent and view of SAAC as opposed to what appears to be one persons editorial on the subject all the Registry needed to very simply do was stay consistent with that person's statement especially if it was the editor in chief's statment throughout and not set out to define and refer to the Continuation Series as "genuine" Cobras or "Cobras" or authentic Cobras which the Registry clearly does in dedicated sections dealing with those issues. All they needed to do was to stick the Continuation Series Cobras and everything else not of the original series in the "Replica" pot. It would have been simple to do. Stroke of a pen. However, they specifically and expressly didn't do this and furthermore went the extra distance to explain why.

Also significant is the fact that likely the subject of how to define these cars and categorize them was the subject of many a committee meeting and discussion and likely eventual consenus view (which obviously some at SAAC didn't like) but nevertheless adopted as the published view. Yep. Its all there.

Gee Mdross1 I am not the one throwing aspersions. I am merely pointing to the definitions and categories used by SAAC when addressing the issue. The way it see it the aspersions being hurled in my direction and toward the current production Cobras.

Buddyg: Whats unbelievable is your inability at analysis and ability to understand.

Ralphy: Sorry you are so upset by all this. You say "arrogance" I say "sour grapes" in an effort to denegrade what some don't own. As far as who is being ignorant, thick headed, sick and a fool I'll let my words speak for me you and I'll let your words speak for you. I'm very comfortable with that.

In the meantime what remains an undeniable truth regardless of the SAAC editor in chief's views is that what continuation owners own are current production Shelby Cobras. He can't change the facts either.

Heck, maybe Continuation owners will start our own official Registry!. Maybe you guys are right after all, who needs SAAC?

Hey. you guys have a good day.

Cheers.

P.S. Message to SAAC. You have what appears to be an inconsistent statement in your Registry at page 16 with what is clearly stated in the preponderance of the your Registry. If you like I can provide all the page numbers. Thought you guys might like to know.

P.S.P.S. You also appear to have Continuation Cobras on the cover of your World Registry of Cobras & GT40s. Does that need to be fixed?

[Paul F]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

...
In the meantime what remains an undeniable truth regardless of the SAAC editor in chief's views is that what continuation owners own are current production Shelby Cobras. He can't change the facts either.

That is an undeniable fact. The other undeniable fact is that in the context of the original post - nobody cares. No matter how it is documented in the registry, it still isn't a Cobra from the 1960s. Now that's a Cobra. Sure, your's is a Shelby Cobra. Its a real Cobra, but it isn't a real Cobra.

In a conversation at a car show, if you told a Thunderbird enthusiast you owned a T-Bird, you would peak their interest. When you both walk up to your 2002 T-Bird, well.... who cares? It's not a T-Bird. It's not a real T-Bird. Yes, it is a genuine Ford Thunderbird. That is undeniable. But it really isn't is it? Not in the context that enthusiasts view it. They wanted to see a 1955-57 T-Bird.

It's obvious you have great pride in your car and enjoy it very much. My point is that no matter what re-make we own, if we don't have a 1960's Cobra, we shouldn't cloud the conversation nor let our ego/pride/insecurities cloud up the conversation with an innocent that walks up to us and asks if its real or if its original. They only care about one thing. Adding anything else to the answer 'no' is for your benefit, not theirs. If they want to know more, they will ask.

This lengthy discussion shows how hung up we are about it. But nobody else cares.

Well, I'm full of popcorn. See you guys the next time this comes up.

Evan, if you're ever in the San Francisco Bay area, post a note. It would be fun to meet over breakfast or drinks.

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Heck, maybe Continuation owners will start our own official Registry!.

Perfect -

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... Message to SAAC. You have what appears to be an inconsistent statement in your Registry at page 16 with what is clearly stated in the preponderance of the your Registry. If you like I can provide all the page numbers. Thought you guys might like to know.

P.S.P.S. You also appear to have Continuation Cobras on the cover of your World Registry of Cobras & GT40s. Does that need to be fixed?

Sorry, I had to pen a reply to this one ...

Dear Evan,
As a valued SAAC contributor and avid enthusiast of these cars, thank you for your input. The paragraph you site in the Registry's "Evolution of the Registry", page 16, in fact accurately describes the thought process at the time by SAAC to protect investors of these rare and highly collectible cars from mass production versions by SAI and the ever growing 3rd party manufacturers. The primary purpose of the Registry is to maintain order and legitimacy of the original Cobras, produced in very limited numbers, so that collectors of these cars will continue to see their investment hold value and appreciate over time. As a CSX4000 series owner, you should be proud to own the later SAI version which is faithful to the original and with some 30 years of technological advances. Someday you may have the opportunity to own an original and the SAAC will help protect that investment, thank you for your continued support as a SAAC member.

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Sorry, I had to pen a reply to this one ...

Dear Evan,
As a valued SAAC contributor and avid enthusiast of these cars, thank you for your input. The paragraph you site in the Registry's "Evolution of the Registry", page 16, in fact accurately describes the thought process at the time by SAAC to protect investors of these rare and highly collectible cars from mass production versions by SAI and the ever growing 3rd party manufacturers. The primary purpose of the Registry is to maintain order and legitimacy of the original Cobras, produced in very limited numbers, so that collectors of these cars will continue to see their investment hold value and appreciate over time. As a CSX4000 series owner, you should be proud to own the later SAI version which is faithful to the original and with some 30 years of technological advances. Someday you may have the opportunity to own an original and the SAAC will help protect that investment, thank you for your continued support as a SAAC member.

uh oh -

But it is still a Cobra

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

uh oh -

But it is still a Cobra

Yes, there are Cobras and there are Cobras, I think the SAAC with that "Evolution of the Registry" paragraph is letting us know which ones they care about

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Take the SAAC Registry off the table and just deal with the question Joe Public is asking "is it real". Either you agree his/her curiosity is focused on "was it built in the 60's" or you don't. Some have a mental block and cant' accept that translation to get to the fundamental right answer. Ironically, all have been asked that question many times, and if you're being honest, it always goes to same place "no, it's not a 60's original but ...".

Now put the SAAC Registry back on the table with definitions below. Everything said above in not in conflict to the registry as some have implied. In fact, the registry provides you guidance on how to answer that question truthfully IF you understand what Joe Public is fundamentally asking.

1. Original Cobra: Those produced between '62 and '68.

2. CSX Continuation Cobras: Current production Cobras built by Shelby to more less original standards delivered without engine and transmission.

3. Kit Car or Replica: Any Car with a body which approximates the original Cobra shape, using any kind frame, suspension, brakes or driveline.

Joe Public is asking if your car is an original cobra and nothing more. How they frame the question should not be viewed as your opportunity to get your foot in the door and steer away from the fundamental right answer. Once answered, if Joe Public decides to walk away so what, why do you care? If more dialogue follows then cool - you've met someone truly interested in the hobby.

Thank you Al,
In the words of our friend who needs help... You nailed it!

So Evan, Why the mental block?

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Sorry, I had to pen a reply to this one ...

Dear Evan,
As a valued SAAC contributor and avid enthusiast of these cars, thank you for your input. The paragraph you site in the Registry's "Evolution of the Registry", page 16, in fact accurately describes the thought process at the time by SAAC to protect investors of these rare and highly collectible cars from mass production versions by SAI and the ever growing 3rd party manufacturers. The primary purpose of the Registry is to maintain order and legitimacy of the original Cobras, produced in very limited numbers, so that collectors of these cars will continue to see their investment hold value and appreciate over time. As a CSX4000 series owner, you should be proud to own the later SAI version which is faithful to the original and with some 30 years of technological advances. Someday you may have the opportunity to own an original and the SAAC will help protect that investment, thank you for your continued support as a SAAC member.

Oh no!
You've insulted him.



Ps. Evan, mine is merely a cobra by anyone definition. Just not a real one!
Just ask any Joe public


PPS: counterfeit as per definition fits yours perfectly. No?
Let google guide you.

counterfeit
ˈkaʊntəfɪt,-fiːt/
adjective
1.
made in exact imitation of something valuable with the intention to deceive or defraud.
"counterfeit $10 note"
"a counterfeit image of reality"

Shoe fits, no?
I think SAAC might agree... Perhaps that's why they included them?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Sorry, I had to pen a reply to this one ...

Dear Evan,
As a valued SAAC contributor and avid enthusiast of these cars, thank you for your input. The paragraph you site in the Registry's "Evolution of the Registry", page 16, in fact accurately describes the thought process at the time by SAAC to protect investors of these rare and highly collectible cars from mass production versions by SAI and the ever growing 3rd party manufacturers. The primary purpose of the Registry is to maintain order and legitimacy of the original Cobras, produced in very limited numbers, so that collectors of these cars will continue to see their investment hold value and appreciate over time. As a CSX4000 series owner, you should be proud to own the later SAI version which is faithful to the original and with some 30 years of technological advances. Someday you may have the opportunity to own an original and the SAAC will help protect that investment, thank you for your continued support as a SAAC member.

Assuming that was SAAC's official response and clarification to what the editor in chief meant I could live with that explanation. No issue here.

Hey, any of you guys in Jersey want to meet up for a cup of coffee and talk Cobras and Cobra replicas? I'll buy the coffee

Cheers.

[mdross1]

[
Gee Mdross1 I am not the one throwing aspersions. I am merely pointing to the definitions and categories used by SAAC when addressing the issue. The way it see it the aspersions being hurled in my direction and toward the current production Cobras.

Well Real one like you throwing aspersions are not meant to be taken literally. Your long winded speeches about the authenticity of our Cobras has long since worn some of us out. You can have the last word since you are so intent on having it.

We are a lot alike in the end both dedicated, me for my creation whatever it is supposed to be referred to as, yours is easy it is spelled out in bold print we get it. If your needing to be on that pedestal is so important that you have dedicated all this time then sir step up. That SAAC registry and it's definitions is important to you we certainly get it.

Please do not forget there are a lot of hot rodders on this forum that love these cars as much as we do. Owning a real one is more important to some boy is that obvious. You have to see that all these other hot rodders are as dedicated and when we read something posted the way you word it expect confrontation. I'm certain this is not your first time on the defense.

Thankfully most of the owners of CSX cars I have met over the years are much easier to get along with. Really curious what kind of a person you are away from this forum.
MDRoss One

[Ralphy]

Real1=Troll!

http://americablog.com/2014/02/dark-...et-trolls.html

Originally Posted by mdross1

[
Gee Mdross1 I am not the one throwing aspersions. I am merely pointing to the definitions and categories used by SAAC when addressing the issue. The way it see it the aspersions being hurled in my direction and toward the current production Cobras.

Well Real one like you throwing aspersions are not meant to be taken literally. Your long winded speeches about the authenticity of our Cobras has long since worn some of us out. You can have the last word since you are so intent on having it.

We are a lot alike in the end both dedicated, me for my creation whatever it is supposed to be referred to as, yours is easy it is spelled out in bold print we get it. If your needing to be on that pedestal is so important that you have dedicated all this time then sir step up. That SAAC registry and it's definitions is important to you we certainly get it.

Please do not forget there are a lot of hot rodders on this forum that love these cars as much as we do. Owning a real one is more important to some boy is that obvious. You have to see that all these other hot rodders are as dedicated and when we read something posted the way you word it expect confrontation. I'm certain this is not your first time on the defense.

Thankfully most of the owners of CSX cars I have met over the years are much easier to get along with. Really curious what kind of a person you are away from this forum.
MDRoss One

Ralphy

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by mdross1

[
Gee Mdross1 I am not the one throwing aspersions. I am merely pointing to the definitions and categories used by SAAC when addressing the issue. The way it see it the aspersions being hurled in my direction and toward the current production Cobras.

Well Real one like you throwing aspersions are not meant to be taken literally. Your long winded speeches about the authenticity of our Cobras has long since worn some of us out. You can have the last word since you are so intent on having it.

We are a lot alike in the end both dedicated, me for my creation whatever it is supposed to be referred to as, yours is easy it is spelled out in bold print we get it. If your needing to be on that pedestal is so important that you have dedicated all this time then sir step up. That SAAC registry and it's definitions is important to you we certainly get it.

Please do not forget there are a lot of hot rodders on this forum that love these cars as much as we do. Owning a real one is more important to some boy is that obvious. You have to see that all these other hot rodders are as dedicated and when we read something posted the way you word it expect confrontation. I'm certain this is not your first time on the defense.

Thankfully most of the owners of CSX cars I have met over the years are much easier to get along with. Really curious what kind of a person you are away from this forum.
MDRoss One

Actually, my mom told me I'm a great guy. However, I appear to be widely misunderstood here.

Seriously, I have no problem with anyone personally. I only have problems with personal attacks. People are entitled to their personal views if that's what it is.

I have owned Excalibur replica Cobras and ERA replica cobras. Both wonderful cars. I would own an ERA again. The Cobra owes much to the hot rodder. We all know that. More importantly the Cobra itself owes much to the replica and the guys who buy them and build them. I think SAAC should show more recognition of that IMHO. Without replicas and the replica industry I believe the Cobra would fade in history and the public mind and be forgotten to a large extent. No doubt in my mind about it. If the Cobra fades in the mind of the public SAAC fades away and disappears to a large extent. It becomes nothing more than a mutual admiration club limited to those included in the "fraternity" like the Oscars where actors gather to give each other awards.

There is nothing pejorative in owning a "replica" of a Cobra as defined by SAAC. Not in my mind and not in my usage of the word. Many here read into my words. They are cars that pay homage to something we all love and they help keep the hobby alive and as such the Cobra alive in many many ways. Replicas, many of which are better built, faster, better designed, and safer and are what keep this hobby alive and the Cobra alive. As Peter Portante' of ERA once said to me when talking about the tubing on the original Cobra "he has seen better tubing on lawn chairs". I agree based on what I have seen over the many years I have been involved in this hobby.

Cheers.

[REAL 1]

That's nice Ralph. Very nice.

I take it you won't be coming for coffee then?

[mdross1]

[quote=REAL 1;1296217]Actually, my mom told me I'm a great guy. However, I appear to be widely misunderstood here.

Seriously, I have no problem with anyone personally. I only have problems with personal attacks. People are entitled to their personal views if that's what it is.

Okay you are a nice guy if your mother says you are but take a moment and read some of your first posts,they drew me in. You seem to have a good control of the English language try exercising that ability when talking about kit cars. I commend you on this last post at least felt you put some effort into giving the industry some credit. Don't forget without the kit car industry Mr. Shelby may never have started building his own versions of these wonderful cars.

I'm certain that most everyone that participates on this forum loves these cars as much as you. Except for the SAAC registry my library is full of most all books published about these cars as well as a few magazines. While researching and building our car my life revolved around it. Without the SAAC recognition does not make the kit car owners any less dedicated.
MDR1

[hectorturer]

I see it in the same ways as Coca-Cola, there are a lot of Soda Colas out there, maybe you don't see, feel and taste the diference but that doesn't matter, still a Cola. At the end you see Coca-Cola as original but is the same as the others Colas. So if anyone ask I will just say is a continuation branded SPF. Shelby CSX are the same but Coca-Cola branded

Thank to all the posters, Cheers

[Dimis]

Ralphy: I took aim at Evan because, well let's face i,t he can present as a bully... BUT truth is depending on perspective, either side of this coin is correct.

PaulF pretty much summed it up best when he said this:

Originally Posted by Paul F

Yes! This whole discussion is because those that don't own a genuine Shelby do have a chip on their shoulder and need to find a way to tell people their car is cool even though it isn't a genuine Shelby. If they didn't, they wouldn't have such angst about answering the question.

Even those that don't have a 1960s Cobra but have a Shelby have a chip on their shoulder because they go through such great lengths to argue that theirs is a continuation Cobra and the registry says so.

Guess what? NO ONE ASKING THE QUESTION CARES. Continuation, replica, kit, custom, no one cares. It's not an original. They walk away disappointed and you feel bad because you couldn't say yes.

Question: Is it original?
Answer: No.

BUT the issue I have is, why the insecurity on either side of this fence?
It is what it is... Nothing more, nothing less.

Hence forth and enjoy

Just saying - REPLICA (or variant of...) is NOT a dirty word.



Ps: The buzzer went fellas... So I'm going to go play with my real/counterfeit/dune buggy cobra

Originally Posted by hectorturer

I see it in the same ways as..

Thank to all the posters, Cheers

Enjoy!