what are the pro's vs con's on engines

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

I like the direction this thread is going, neutral pros & cons at 1st, then polite bias toward one or the other, followed by less restraint and finger pointing. We are trending in the right direction, my 2 cents ...

Blown, you have the right idea, maybe bore it out to a 427 and get the best of both worlds?

- Weighs approx 100 lbs less than a 427fe
- Still same dimensions as 351c
- Huge torque increase over factory 351 engine
- Runs cooler than a 427fe
- Vehicle handles and corners better than a 427fe
- Just as fast or faster from 0-60 or 0-100 mph times vs. 427fe
- Runs thousands less in cost to a 427fe
- Won't leak oil like a 427fe
- Period correct displacement in a SBC package
- Performance parts available for all configurations

What's a small block versus big block comparison thread without some oversimplification, untruths and BS?

Yes, small block Ford engines are cheaper to build than big block Ford engines. True.

Performance parts are available for all configurations. Obvious, but true.

At a minimum, Cleveland heads are much larger than Windsor heads. So, they're not the same dimensionally. All big block Fords don't leak. And small blocks leak too. My BBF doesn't leak. And my BBF doesn't have any cooling issues.

The rest, leaks, cooling, handling and performance, will depend on the car, engine builder and your budget.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by twin turbo

Is the 351C ok to take out to 427? The Windsors usually use an aftermarket block to go that big.

There are 427C's out there, good question for an engine builder.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

RodKnock has personally witnessed hoards of spectators weeping at the sight of a small block in a 427 car. And, to a lesser extent, 385 series as well. But, in the end, it's your car... so put a rat motor in there if you want.

I haven't seen anyone weeping at car shows. But BBF's do lend an air of authenticity when installed in big block bodies, if that stuff matters to you. And from my own personal experience, big block Cobra bodies with big block engines appear to gather more spectators than other Cobras at car shows, if that stuff matters to you.

If authenticity and spectators don't matter to you, but cost does matter, then small block all the way.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

There are 427C's out there, good question for an engine builder.

Nope, no 427 Cleveland's....not from a factory 351c block anyway.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by blykins

Nope, no 427 Cleveland's....not from a factory 351c block anyway.

How about bumping a factory 351w to 427?

Aftermarket 427 SBC
White Performance | STREET ROD ENGINES

[blykins]

Sure, but a Windsor is almost 3/8" taller in the decks.

With a factory bore Windsor, you have to use a 4.100" or 4.170" stroke crank to get 427 inches.

With a factory bore Cleveland, you again would have to use a 4.100" or 4.170" stroke crank, but there's less room for the piston. Due to the crankshaft design, you have to use a 6.200" rod, and in the Cleveland's case, that would make for a 1" compression height piston. Normally, that's not an issue, 400 SBC's use them all the time, but the intake valve location in a Cleveland pretty much hampers that idea.

You could also use a 6" rod, but you have to cut the counterweights on the crankshaft down by almost a 1/4", and that gets super costly....then you have to balance it....and that's super costly again.

[AL427SBF]

Good info, thanks Brent.

[RET_COP]

RodKnock, a bit of a stretch lol yea for sure, he was easy on me, I gave him a 'Like " for that. I did find a FE 390 for $10,000 570HP. I was thinking more of the 427/428. So the FE 390 can be built for about the same price.

[Dominik]

Sorry, thoght it is a 351W which could go easily to 427.

You can get plenty of hp form a 351C... My late buddy in SA only changed cam and pistons and got 500+ The cam was very radical though, not streetable.

For the records, I am a FE fan for originality reasons. Else I prefer 427W.

[mnm99]

I'm in the same boat. Here is a guy on 460forums that builds only BBF. A 460 with I know it's not top of the line stuff, but a pretty good price. He breaks in the motor and checks for leaks before it's shipped. He uses Procomp heads that he goes through before installing. But then again, I'm looking at buying a NEW Backdraft and this will be a tight fit. Still got to do some research on how hard it is to say change the plugs ext....

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[Silversmith]

Spend a little extra & get rid of those China based Procomp heads. Use instead John Kasse P-51 Heads with the above listed engine build & pick up 100 hp est. A set of P-51 was about 2K to 3K last I checked Also a 385 is a very dependable/strong engine, as long as you keep the rev's less than 6,500rpm.

[blown]

wow this has been a good discussion I'm thinking a 390 stroked to a 440 or maybe a 351 stroked to a 393 they both seem to be very good combo's but I need to measure the fe for fitment that Cleveland is tight in their as it is.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blown

wow this has been a good discussion I'm thinking a 390 stroked to a 440...

I think that's a fine choice. Blykins, or any of the other builders around here, can advise you on head tweaking, cam choice, intakes, maybe single or dual quads, and what not. They can turn the horsepower and torque up to the level that appeals to you. You might also just throw a feeler out to see if anyone has a nice webbed 428 block just sitting around that they'd let go for a dime or two. Having the extra bore always helps, but it's not critical for what you'll be doing.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think that's a fine choice. Blykins, or any of the other builders around here, can advise you on head tweaking, cam choice, intakes, maybe single or dual quads, and what not. They can turn the horsepower and torque up to the level that appeals to you. You might also just throw a feeler out to see if anyone has a nice webbed 428 block just sitting around that they'd let go for a dime or two. Having the extra bore always helps, but it's not critical for what you'll be doing.

Whether your choice is a small block or big block, find a good engine builder and a good installer, if you're not doing the work. Having an experienced professional both building and installing your engine will greatly reduce the probability of headaches like leaks, cooling issues or other sorting maladies.