Anybody lining up for the new Shelby Cobra?

[mullen2]

Started a new topic with pics of 5 csx 1000 cars

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Al G

Just once I'd like to see someone from SAI or Kirkham respond to this kind of comment and tell us exactly who does what with the aluminum Shelby cars. I don't believe it is as simple as some people claim.

That depends entirely upon the roller. Who did what to whom changed dramatically over the years.

The roller that is pictured currently on Shelby's website for the 50th Anniversary 427

Shelby American Inc. - 50th Anniversary 427 Cobra

was built almost entirely by Kirkham. We even made the Shelby badged hub caps, steering emblem, brake pedal arm, and clutch pedal arm. Other than the logo, all parts are essentially the same as what we make on our current rollers.

We have been working a long, long time with Shelby as of late. Joe Conway, the CEO of Shelby, has been great to work with and is deeply committed to improving Shelby quality and delivery. I wish Joe had taken over long ago. Joe has Keith Belair, CFO, running day to day right now. Keith is also deeply committed to improving quality and delivery. Bill DenBeste, Shelby dealer, is deeply committed to improving quality and delivery. Whenever we have offered them a choice of parts they always go for top-shelf items.

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

This has been discussed in the past before several times.

Shelby buys the frame and aluminum body from Kirkham and then builds their car up from there in Vegas. Shelby uses original CSX3000 style suspension as opposed to the Kirkham billet suspension. Kirkham has said that Shelby also buys some miscellaneous parts from them too, but Shelby has their own set of suppliers for their aluminum cars. Shelby does not buy a Kirkham roller.

However with the last 50th anniversary Shelby cars, there was a slight difference in that the Kirkham frames and bodies were shipped from Poland to South Africa (instead of Vegas), so that all of the 50th anniversary cars were completed consistently in South Africa.

I am bit too lazy to go searching through old threads. There is a thread where I had posted pictures of aluminum cars at Vegas, both CSX1000 (sourced from AC) and CSX4000/CSX7000 cars (sourced from Kirkham) which are starting off as body and frame. There is another thread were David Kirkham mentions that for frames supplied to Shelby, they put the motor mounts in a slightly different location from an original car, as opposed to Kirkham which puts the motor mounts in the correct location. This information is also found in the SAAC registry. As for the last 50th anniversary body/frames being shipped from Poland to South Africa, that is mentioned in another thread and I think someone posted a picture related to that (I am not sure, but the picture might have been from computerworks (ron)).

We have not sent an aluminum frame and body to South Africa for many years. That said, Jimmy Price has always been very nice to deal with.

Currently, Shelby has bought several rollers from us. The latest Shelby's from us all have our suspension (and just about everything else). The above 427 50th has our latest billet suspension.

All motor mounts in our cars have always been in the same place. We do not make different frames for Shelby (or anyone else)--unless it is a very specific, custom chassis. We have had customers request V-12 set ups and all sorts of things over the years.

Originally Posted by Phill Pollard

On the Shelby American Facebook page where they announce the 50th Cobras someone using the name Chris Kirkham made a comment something to the effect of "Hey, I made (or built) that car!" I assumed that Chris is from the company known as Kirkham.

Phill

Chris is one of my twin sons (who both work here). They both did indeed work on that roller. I am extremely proud of both of them. They are working on becoming programmers. They jumped straight into our latest project of programming our new 8 axis robot with a laser. It is state-of-the-art.

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Not. They are based on different original cars and no two of the originals were the same. Kirkham and Shelby parts are not interchangeable. Just like Shelby and spf fiberglass cars and not from the same roots. Manufactured in the same factory yes but not the same lines spitting parts out at the end.

Hmmm...this is tricky to answer. Many Kirkham and Shelby parts (mostly suspension) of the past SHOULD be interchangeable in theory. In practice they have sometimes fallen short. In the past Shelby used George Petrus parts (George was a very nice man and unfortunately, he is now in the big race track in the sky). George was very liberal in his view of originality (among other things) and his original parts were/are a difficult interchange with original parts.

Originally Posted by bret a ewing

Tony,

Kirkham builds the original style suspension. It is an option.

Best, Bret.

Yes, we still do for those customers who want them. In the past, those customers have almost exclusively been Shelby. But, as I said above, Joe Conway of Shelby is deeply committed to using as high a quality of parts as he can find and they made the switch to the Kirkham billet suspension with us a bit ago.

Happy to answer questions,

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

The roller that is pictured currently on Shelby's website for the 50th Anniversary 427 was built almost entirely by Kirkham. We even made the Shelby badged hub caps, steering emblem, brake pedal arm, and clutch pedal arm. Other than the logo, all parts are essentially the same as what we make on our current rollers.

Currently, Shelby has bought several rollers from us. The latest Shelby's from us all have our suspension (and just about everything else). The above 427 50th has our latest billet suspension.
David

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

so basically SAI buys a Kirkham alloy ($90K), slaps on Shelby badges, charges double price, and makes the customer wait 18 months? Sounds too good to be true

So, NYG appears to be correct. Well, that sucks.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

So, NYG appears to be correct. Well, that sucks.

Residing in Arkansas brings to mind the blind hog and the acorn. But I've probably used that refrain to refer to myself all too often.

But, to get back to the original question - I still don't think I've heard anyone say they are putting a down payment down on one of these.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by DanEC

I still don't think I've heard anyone say they are putting a down payment down on one of these.

Not so fast.
We haven't heard from NewYorkGuy or Thor_Maine yet.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Not so fast.
We haven't heard from NewYorkGuy or Thor_Maine yet.

no, sir, I would not pay $180K for a Kirkham with Shelby badges. but what I would do is buy a used Kirkham and put on fake "50th anniversary Shelby badges & fake CSX vin plate" and tell everybody, "yea, it's a real Shelby continuation 50th anniversary limited model." Hmm, maybe I will do that. wait 10 more years, wait for these new fake Cobras to get old so it would look more real? this crazy cobra hobby is based on perfecting forgery and Shelby Inc. is a customer of Kirkham.

hmm, while I am being honest, I am buying property in china, in a fake manhattan

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZvcQDjj3Qk[/ame]

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

no, sir, I would not pay $180K for a Kirkham with Shelby badges. but what I would do is buy a used Kirkham and put on fake "50th anniversary Shelby badges & fake CSX vin plate" and tell everybody, "yea, it's a real Shelby continuation 50th anniversary limited model." Hmm, maybe I will do that. wait 10 more years, wait for these new fake Cobras to get old so it would look more real? this crazy cobra hobby is based on perfecting forgery and Shelby Inc. is a customer of Kirkham.

Just make sure you put an FE in there.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by DanEC

But, to get back to the original question - I still don't think I've heard anyone say they are putting a down payment down on one of these.

Well, Dan, one has to ask themselves the question, "Am I a Cartier or diamond district type person?"

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Well, Dan, one has to ask themselves the question, "Am I a Cartier or diamond district type person?"

Depends if you want FL, VVS1, VVS2 and so on. You may know the difference but trust me, the wife won't.!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Depends if you want FL, VVS1, VVS2 and so on. You may know the difference but trust me, the wife won't.!

I don't know what any of that means, since I'm a "diamond district" person as mentioned earlier. But since Rodneym is a Cartier-type person, he would definitely know.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Well, Dan, one has to ask themselves the question, "Am I a Cartier or diamond district type person?"

How about Zales?

[1ntCobra]

Well I guess you cannot expect things to remain the same all of the time. The pictures I posted of the aluminum body/frames in Vegas were from 2006. So that must have been the arrangement at the time, when Amy was still there.

You say, "Currently, Shelby has bought several rollers from us." Several does not sound like a lot. Have they switched to just buying rollers now and that is a recent change? Or do you just occasionally sell them rollers and still supply them with just frame/body for the typical case?

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

That depends entirely upon the roller. Who did what to whom changed dramatically over the years.

The roller that is pictured currently on Shelby's website for the 50th Anniversary 427

Shelby American Inc. - 50th Anniversary 427 Cobra

was built almost entirely by Kirkham. We even made the Shelby badged hub caps, steering emblem, brake pedal arm, and clutch pedal arm. Other than the logo, all parts are essentially the same as what we make on our current rollers.

We have been working a long, long time with Shelby as of late. Joe Conway, the CEO of Shelby, has been great to work with and is deeply committed to improving Shelby quality and delivery. I wish Joe had taken over long ago. Joe has Keith Belair, CFO, running day to day right now. Keith is also deeply committed to improving quality and delivery. Bill DenBeste, Shelby dealer, is deeply committed to improving quality and delivery. Whenever we have offered them a choice of parts they always go for top-shelf items.



We have not sent an aluminum frame and body to South Africa for many years. That said, Jimmy Price has always been very nice to deal with.

Currently, Shelby has bought several rollers from us. The latest Shelby's from us all have our suspension (and just about everything else). The above 427 50th has our latest billet suspension.

All motor mounts in our cars have always been in the same place. We do not make different frames for Shelby (or anyone else)--unless it is a very specific, custom chassis. We have had customers request V-12 set ups and all sorts of things over the years.




Chris is one of my twin sons (who both work here). They both did indeed work on that roller. I am extremely proud of both of them. They are working on becoming programmers. They jumped straight into our latest project of programming our new 8 axis robot with a laser. It is state-of-the-art.



Hmmm...this is tricky to answer. Many Kirkham and Shelby parts (mostly suspension) of the past SHOULD be interchangeable in theory. In practice they have sometimes fallen short. In the past Shelby used George Petrus parts (George was a very nice man and unfortunately, he is now in the big race track in the sky). George was very liberal in his view of originality (among other things) and his original parts were/are a difficult interchange with original parts.



Yes, we still do for those customers who want them. In the past, those customers have almost exclusively been Shelby. But, as I said above, Joe Conway of Shelby is deeply committed to using as high a quality of parts as he can find and they made the switch to the Kirkham billet suspension with us a bit ago.

Happy to answer questions,

David

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

You say, "Currently, Shelby has bought several rollers from us." Several does not sound like a lot. Have they switched to just buying rollers now and that is a recent change? Or do you just occasionally sell them rollers and still supply them with just frame/body for the typical case?

I don't mean to be short, but we supply what they order. I really don't know all their future plans.

David

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I don't mean to be short, but we supply what they order. I really don't know all their future plans.

David

That's OK. I suspect that Shelby probably doesn't want too many details about what they buy from you getting out anyway.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

That's OK. I suspect that Shelby probably doesn't want too many details about what they buy from you getting out anyway.

Actually they are very open about it. Joe has worked very hard to change the culture at Shelby from riding on their laurels to one of constant improvement. I'm sure they are constantly looking for better suppliers. We have to stay on the top of our game with Joe and Keith. They aren't shy about demanding higher quality and better delivery times.

David

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Actually they are very open about it. Joe has worked very hard to change the culture at Shelby from riding on their laurels to one of constant improvement. I'm sure they are constantly looking for better suppliers. We have to stay on the top of our game with Joe and Keith. They aren't shy about demanding higher quality and better delivery times.

David

Interesting. In the past, I thought of the Shelby aluminum cars as having a distinction from the Kirkham cars in a number of ways, obviously one of those things is the Shelby brand, but there were other difference too, like the original style suspension, a really nice paint job and some amount of assembly done in Vegas. Now it seems a bit less different than a Kirkham if they arrive in Vegas as Kirkham rollers with Kirkham billet suspension and only need to be painted, add some Shelby badges and weld a plate over the Kirkham number with a CSX number.

Now I can definitely see people asking, why pay so much more than the base price of a Kirkham for a Shelby. But then again, there are a lot of options available from Kirkham and they can add up really fast. The price of a well optioned Kirkham can be significantly higher than the base price. Perhaps we can think of the Shelby product as a well optioned Kirkham with a really nice paint job and the Shelby brand name. And I think we know that Shelby has customer out there willing to pay their price.