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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2008, 09:53 AM
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Default Whats CSX1001 Value? (Your Opinion)

Hello, My name is Gary and a few years ago I was the lucky guy who won CSX1001 427 Semi Comp AC Cobra in the Shelby Childrens Foundation Raffle.

This Cobra is one of 13 Bodies made by AC in the CSX1000 Series and was Titled To Carroll Shelby prior to his donating it to the foundation for the raffle.

I am the second owner and still have Carroll's original title. It was made using the original wooden bucks at AC. then shipped to Shelby American for completion. Shelby installed the Aluminum 427 and completed the car in F1 red with white stripes. I have shown it by invitation as a feature car at a number of regional events and try to promote the Childrens foundation whenever it is displayed by displaying posterboards of the build and information concerning the the Shelby Childrens foundation.

Keep in mind when giving your estimate the limited production of the CSX1000 series, very few AC Cobras have actually been titled to Carroll Shelby. Original wooden buck production etc. Very Rare Car and beautiful!
What do you think the value of this Cobra might be?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2008, 11:03 AM
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Gary

Congrats on the win, I did curse you for some time!

I would like to set some ground rules, this is my opinion and only mine as you will get a bunch with all varying a bit.

Original 1960's cars:
Either 289 or 427 cars are similar in value within their catagory. 289's sell for 450-600k and 427's sell 900-1.1mm. They are the originals! They can fetch more dollars from their specific pedigree. The pedigree can be from racing, historical events, CS owned and the like.

Everything else post 1960 is a replication of the original even those made by AC, Autokraft, SAI or the hundreds of others. Your car and all those post 60's cars can't even run in the concourse show at SAAC, not even with AC Body bucks...

In my opinion:
CSX1000 car is equivalent in value to a Vegas built alluminum car.
That makes it 100-125k.
AC body bucks: Ok and?
Add CS name to the title, even though he never really owned it, maybe a few more bucks for covanance. (say <$5000)
I would estimate 105k - 130k depending on buyers and market.

SAI does anything they can to add a limited addition or special model to stimulate their huge margin car sales. If I had 200K burning a hole in my pocket for your car, I might buy it as I love these cars. Realistically that would be stupid on my part as your car is really a 4000 series with a twist. The foundation wants the car for show because it is an attention getter. As they all are that for sure.

Realistic in truth but highly collectable can be debated. Kind of like that CSX-R car for sale on fleabay at $325g's, GOOD LUCK

You have a great car with a great story, value is not relavant if the car is not slated for the auction block. If it is go where there is a reserve as you may get the proverbial screwing.

Good luck with your adventure..........
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-22-2008, 11:11 AM
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Default Body bucks

The reincarnation of AC that made the 1000 series body/chassis did not use the original 427 bucks. Those bucks were long gone and Angliss made new ones in the 70's in order to make all the replacement panels and new cars from then on.
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:16 AM
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I have a couple of pictures of your car in my gallery.









I remember commenting on your car in a thread. I think it had to do with Amy looking into finding a replacement for AC for a higher end aluminum body like the CSX1000 series. A number of people kind of shot me down as to whether the original AC body bucks still existed and that the AC company should have been considered dead long ago. They seemed to think that the AC connection was more marketing hype than having a true connection to any sort of AC heritage.

So I suspect that some Club Cobra members may not value your car as much as you do.

Still your car is definitely a very unique item and I'm sure it would command a nice premium over the average aluminum body CSX4000 series cars.

Have you contacted SAAC? I was looking at various sections of the new registry and stumbled upon the section on the CSX1000 series cars. I don't think they have your information as the second owner of the car. Which seems odd as that information should have been fairly well publicized.
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:32 AM
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I did contact SAAC shortly after I won the car and gave them the info I had as Titled to Carroll and the foundation raffle info etc for inclusion in the next registry. Don't know if they included it or not.... should have .. good point I will check on it and resubmit if necessary.

As far as the original bucks I have pictures of them and they do look old and the pic shows them as being used on CSX1000 cars. The pics were on Shelby Americans computer and Rich gave me copies of them when I was in Vegas at Carroll's 85 birthday. I'm not sure how to post these but would be happy to if someone can guide me. I 'm not real good at navigating the website yet.
Thanks for your input.
Gary
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Old 09-22-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcmgt View Post
The reincarnation of AC that made the 1000 series body/chassis did not use the original 427 bucks. Those bucks were long gone and Angliss made new ones in the 70's in order to make all the replacement panels and new cars from then on.
This is certainly debatable. Brian certainly started making replacement parts prior to getting officially involved with AC and had to make his own tooling to do so.

However, in an earlier thread, I mentioned that in an early SAAC magazine. AC while still under the Herlock's (sp?) ownership was offering to sell replacement bodies and chassis for a variety of Cobra body styles made from the original tooling. So in the late 1970's, AC still claimed to have the original tooling. And it was years later before Brian purchased equipment from AC. So it is possible that at some point Brian did acquire the original tooling. I'm not saying that he did, only that there is a possibility that he could have acquired it.

If I remember, I can scan the advertisement from the SAAC magazine after I get home.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ntCobra View Post
AC while still under the Herlock's (sp?) ownership was offering to sell replacement bodies and chassis for a variety of Cobra body styles made from the original tooling.
McCluskey, who was involved in buying bodies and chassis from the UK back then, confirmed a long time ago that AC had a good relationship with Angliss and was intending on simply marketing Brian's 427 panels. It appears that to avoid the extra middle man cost, everyone just simply went directly to Angliss and AC never became a player. I recall AC may have still supplied some 289 panels by that time, because some of the small block bucks were still around, but their 427 panel effort died in the 60's.
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Old 09-22-2008, 02:28 PM
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A certain gent who now makes some of the best replica cars in the UK was on 'works experience' secondment to AC Cars in the late 60s while studying engineering at university. He was offered the 427 body bucks provided he could find a trailer to take them away - for free. His transport back then was a Mini so he refused the kind offer, plus he had nowhere to store them. Thus they went into the dumpster and are currently buried pretty deep in a land-fill site somewhere - possibly Essex? If you got a shovel and a strong stomach and enjoy archaeology - and about 50+ years of spare time - they could be yours! (He still sobs gently on a daily basis....)
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:29 PM
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one of the nicest CSX4000 aluminum cars with a shelby 427 and webers just went for 110K here in Greenville last week, that will give you an idea of the market now. a year ago that car would have brought in 145-155. Your car has some special nuances to it, but overall I do not think that would add more than 7-10K in overall value and then only to the right buyer. i would advise enjoying it for now and perhaps it will increase in value over the years.
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Old 09-22-2008, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ENTDOC View Post
one of the nicest CSX4000 aluminum cars with a shelby 427 and webers just went for 110K here in Greenville last week, that will give you an idea of the market now. a year ago that car would have brought in 145-155. Your car has some special nuances to it, but overall I do not think that would add more than 7-10K in overall value and then only to the right buyer. i would advise enjoying it for now and perhaps it will increase in value over the years.
I think Shelby charged quite a bit more than 7-10k premium for a CSX1000 over a CSX4000 aluminum car. Plus the AC built cars are no longer available. I think he would do better than you suggest.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Legate View Post
A certain gent who now makes some of the best replica cars in the UK was on 'works experience' secondment to AC Cars in the late 60s while studying engineering at university. He was offered the 427 body bucks provided he could find a trailer to take them away - for free. His transport back then was a Mini so he refused the kind offer, plus he had nowhere to store them. Thus they went into the dumpster and are currently buried pretty deep in a land-fill site somewhere - possibly Essex? If you got a shovel and a strong stomach and enjoy archaeology - and about 50+ years of spare time - they could be yours! (He still sobs gently on a daily basis....)
Trevor,

We all know, that just because you put it in the dumpster, does not mean that it stays there. Look what happened with CSX 2259.

When are you coming over to this side of the pond to write your new book? I need someone to walk my greyhound.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:21 PM
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CSX1001

I have seen your car and it is A-1!
I hope you don't take offense, it is still a CSX and one to die for.

Still between Trevor, Mike and ENTDOC the general consensus is AC post 60's really does not mean whole lot? 10:1, 1000 series cars were another way to get more $$$ for a car with the same premise as a 4000. Wonder what SAI will do for the 45th anniversary or better yet their 50th? No doubt they will find another buck or specialty lost part to separate the 4000 from the next adventure. Do you really think 43 years old wooden buck were pulled from the grave, used, and once again lost after the first issue of 1000 series cars? Doesn't make sense but the marketing is top notch. The Angliss car bodies were lightyears better than the original cars and the true bargain in the Cobra world. They do not fetch a premium so why would a 1000?

What makes the original bucks better than the KMS bucks or those in use in England today? Still hand pounded and no doubt slightly different each time a panel is made regardless of the buck.

Love your car just the same, just being real.

Last edited by 1985 CCX; 09-22-2008 at 04:34 PM..
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:27 PM
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CSX1001,

We sold three cars last year, I would put a price of $165k.

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Old 09-22-2008, 04:47 PM
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My opinion is that the car is worth in the $150k range. It's definitely worth more than a top notch alloy 4000 car, but not that much more. The "AC" tie-in is borderline comical given how far removed any form of the modern AC is from the Cobra's original roots. I do not believe the AC factor, or the CSX1000 series VIN give the car that much more value.

The source of the body bucks isn't that important to the value either. Even if they were the originals (which they were not), the value would have come from the original people pounding on them, not the bucks themselves. Heck, most original cars weren't shaped the same anyway.

CSX1001 definitely has a place in Continuation Cobra history, and it's a rare car for sure. I just don't feel it's extra attributes add all that much to the dollar value.

I would put the value of a CSX1000 series in between an alloy CSX4000 car and a McClusky Completion car.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:51 PM
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When I ordered AC Bodied CSX1002 it Retailed at $130K or so w/ No Drivetrain. This was at a time when the CSX Aluminum Cars were far less than $100K. Times are tough right now... but it would have cost a guy $170,000 or more to have owned one of these complete and only yours was actually owned by Mr Shelby!
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Surge View Post
My opinion is that the car is worth in the $150k range. It's definitely worth more than a top notch alloy 4000 car, but not that much more. The "AC" tie-in is borderline comical given how far removed any form of the modern AC is from the Cobra's original roots. I do not believe the AC factor, or the CSX1000 series VIN give the car that much more value.

The source of the body bucks isn't that important to the value either. Even if they were the originals (which they were not), the value would have come from the original people pounding on them, not the bucks themselves. Heck, most original cars weren't shaped the same anyway.

CSX1001 definitely has a place in Continuation Cobra history, and it's a rare car for sure. I just don't feel it's extra attributes add all that much to the dollar value.

I would put the value of a CSX1000 series in between an alloy CSX4000 car and a McClusky Completion car.

Not often I agree 100% with Sal these days, but in this case just make it "X2"



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Old 09-22-2008, 04:55 PM
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i cannot disagree with Alan on setting you price at 165, you never know who might want it that bad. another point you should realize is that shelby built a few cars in the early 90's and the guy that sold the CSX 4000 car for 110K also has one of those. I think they went for high 300s at that time, on the premise that they were some kind of special car with original roots. He cannot sell it now at 200K.
Sal, the car might seem to be worth 150 , but CSX 4000 aluminum cars can be had for 120 or so on EBAY right now on a daily basis and glass cars seem to be dropping into the low 70s as a routine.
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Old 09-22-2008, 04:56 PM
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All this is very interesting to me... I will not take offense to anyone and their opinion so don't be affraid of that. This is a forum and all should have their say . No problems.
I am trying to post the pics I have of the bucks so everyone can see.
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Old 09-22-2008, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSX1001 View Post
No problems.
I am trying to post the pics I have of the bucks so everyone can see.

Trust us, if Trevor L. states the original bucks are now buried and helping push up the daisies somewhere in the English countryside you can take that as a fact.



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Old 09-22-2008, 05:03 PM
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and there woud be no reason for anyone to take offense at the comments and opinions, as we hope you get a lot of money for your car and perhaps you will. However, market indicators would lead one to believe that today, our cars are simply not worth what they were a year ago. that will probably change slowly, but keep in mind that aluminum CSX cars are still being built and dilution will occur and even though originals cannot be affected by dilution, tight money will affect their value also.
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