Stephen Becker Automobile group Inc files suit against Shelby American Inc

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

For purposes of correction / clarification, it is my understanding Kirkham supplies aluminum bodies to to SAI, not 'rollers'. By extension, that would also mean Kirkham has NO involvement whatsoever in SAI cars with fiberglass bodies.

Correct. The composite cars are built by Hi Tech Automotive and supplied as rollers.

[jhv48]

While I do side with the dealers on this one if, in fact, SAI is selling completed cars against their dealer contract, I could give a rats ass how much anyone charges or makes from the sale of one of these cars.

Who cares how much they are marked up or how much profit the seller makes?
If you don't like the price, don't buy the product. If everyone feels that way, the price will come down.

This is a niche market. Very small volume. The buyers of these and any other Shelby CSX's will either be heralded as geniuses twenty years from now or will be the butt of jokes on how they overspent for these cars. Only time will tell.

My feeling is that as long as these cars are still in production, their value will be stunted. If they ever cease production, as they did in the 60's, then we will truly see if their prices hold, decrease or go through the roof. Only when they are discontinued will the answer be revealed. And I don't see that happening in the near future. SAI is striking while their iron is hot.

I think these cars are being snapped up by speculators and SAI is capitalizing on the death of C.S. and his legend status. Whether that status will continue with the next generation remains to be seen.

I, personally, think his celebrity will decrease with time and the current crop of Shelby cobras will be worth about the same as the rest of the kit cars over time.

The originals will retain their revered status as they defined an era in automotive history. Those produced today are merely copies and will be valued as any other copy of an original.

[REAL 1]

Jhv48: Some of what you say I agree with.

However, while you can say that the continuation series Shelby's are "copies" of the original series, which they are as they must be in order to recreate the car again there is no escaping the fact they are Carroll Shelbys copies of his original series and are genuine Cobras and genuine Shelby Cobras. They are factually and legally the only car that are Cobras other than the original series and those other few noted in the Registry as quailfying. As such they will always command a premium over copies that are "copies of Cobras". This is regardless of whether the market for Cobras withers and shrinks.

Today, BDR can command upwards of $75,000.00. SPF rollers are $70K. A well turned out ERA will set you back $80K. You can pick up a nice glass Continuation Shelby for what?...$120K? If you have the money many will prefer the Shelby because in large part just because it is a Shelby aside from other factors.

In years to come when the wealthy collectors are a new generation looking for the fast cars of their youth and if Carroll Shelby's legendary status or notoriety dies off or is diminished the real losers will likely be the millionaires that paid millions for the original cars. That may be the biggest yuck yuck of all. After all if the enthusiast base for and interest in Cobras diminishes the originals are at the epicenter of that problem.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Today, BDR can command upwards of $75,000.00...

A BDR costs $75k now??? No wonder this hobby is pretty much just for old farts any more.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

A BDR costs $75k now??? No wonder this hobby is pretty much just for old farts any more.

this is why I suspect Shelby bosses kept all the 50 50th annv. cars to themselves. there isn't that many old farts willing to drop $200K or more. it's a big money grab. maybe the last big pay lump day for the company. 50 cars. 50th anniversary edition at Barrett Jackson 2015

what's the next special editions, 60 60th anniversary cobras in 2025? probably another lawsuit

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

In years to come when the wealthy collectors are a new generation looking for the fast cars of their youth and if Carroll Shelby's legendary status or notoriety dies off or is diminished the real losers will likely be the millionaires that paid millions for the original cars. That may be the biggest yuck yuck of all. After all if the enthusiast base for and interest in Cobras diminishes the originals are at the epicenter of that problem.

Herein I think lies the rub...

We liked the cars because we are of the era when the original cars were still active. I don't see very many Cobras in the hands of 20 year olds. I'll go out on a limb and say that most of the owners are 60-ish.

The Cobra isn't likely to bring back the memories of a new generation of collectors. I'll assert there will always be a market for the originals. It'd be a good guess that the total available market (TAM) for recreation Cobras (regardless of who makes them) is getting smaller rather than larger. I made the same claim in the guy that wanted to put Shelby and Kirkham out of business with his brand spankin' new cheaper alloy body that he should check his business plan...

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Herein I think lies the rub...

We liked the cars because we are of the era when the original cars were still active. I don't see very many Cobras in the hands of 20 year olds. I'll go out on a limb and say that most of the owners are 60-ish.

Yup, I have a 20 and 22 year old that have no interest which in some ways makes me sad. But that it life...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

However, while you can say that the continuation series Shelby's are "copies" of the original series, which they are as they must be in order to recreate the car again there is no escaping the fact they are Carroll Shelbys copies of his original series and are genuine Cobras and genuine Shelby Cobras. They are factually and legally the only car that are Cobras other than the original series and those other few noted in the Registry as quailfying. As such they will always command a premium over copies that are "copies of Cobras."

In years to come when the wealthy collectors are a new generation looking for the fast cars of their youth and if Carroll Shelby's legendary status or notoriety dies off or is diminished the real losers will likely be the millionaires that paid millions for the original cars. That may be the biggest yuck yuck of all. After all if the enthusiast base for and interest in Cobras diminishes the originals are at the epicenter of that problem.

Contradictory. The CSX copies will ALWAYS command a premium because they're "genuine", but the owners of the original CSX's will be the real losers due to loss of status/legacy?

The originals will always be the "Mona Lisa's" and worth a boatload.

If interest diminishes in the Shelby status/legacy in the future, then the original CSX 2000's and CSX 3000's won't be the ones to be the real losers. The CSX premium for the 4000/6000/7000/8000 series will be ZERO and thus the real losers.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Contradictory. The CSX copies will ALWAYS command a premium because they're "genuine", but the owners of the original CSX's will be the real losers due to loss of status/legacy?

The originals will always be the "Mona Lisa's" and worth a boatload.

If interest diminishes in the Shelby status/legacy in the future, then the original CSX 2000's and CSX 3000's won't be the ones to be the real losers. The CSX premium for the 4000/6000/7000/8000 series will be ZERO and thus the real losers.

The originals can be Mona Lisas all day long. If the interest in Cobras and Shelbys tank their fall is the steepest. If the next generations lose interest in the Mona Lisa and DaVinchi it becomes just another old painting. Pretty simple really.

Also if the premium on Shelbys wither based on evaporated interest where does that leave cars that aren't even Shebys?

[fordracing65]

Everything you said is true, the next generation will want raced up Honda civics, teenagers think my car is cool, but what they will really want in 30 years will be a restored 2005 Subaru wrx sti, lol, so the cobra REPLICA, Shelby's will prob be worth, well you know...

[NewYorkGuy]

Shelby performance vehicle dealer eyes Mount Pleasant - Post and Courier

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

The originals can be Mona Lisas all day long. If the interest in Cobras and Shelbys tank their fall is the steepest. If the next generations lose interest in the Mona Lisa and DaVinchi it becomes just another old painting. Pretty simple really.

Also if the premium on Shelbys wither based on evaporated interest where does that leave cars that aren't even Shebys?

IMO, the originals will always be sought after by the "cognoscenti", the "fine art" collector types, because I think they'll always buy those special few "Mona Lisa" type collectibles. If interest diminishes in the Carroll Shelby legacy in future years, then I think it's the modern CSX's that take a hit. They'll be seen as just rebadged Kirkhams with CSX VIN's as someone else here said.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

IMO, the originals will always be sought after by the "cognoscenti", the "fine art" collector types, because I think they'll always buy those special few "Mona Lisa" type collectibles. If interest diminishes in the Carroll Shelby legacy in future years, then I think it's the modern CSX's that take a hit. They'll be seen as just rebadged Kirkhams with CSX VIN's as someone else here said.

Well we will have to see. In the future the rich collectors of today will be dead and gone and their interests along with it.

New Cobras sat on lots for years in the 60s. Dealers couldn't give them away. When the kids of that era started acquiring money things changed as they could by the cars of their dreams in their youth.

The future generation rich likely will be looking for GTR's, WRX turbos, M1's etc...When interest dies out so does the market. No car is immune from that.

Will originals always be worth more than continuation Shelbys? Likely so. Will continuation Shelby likely be worth more than non Shelby look a like cobras? Likely so. If interest in Shelby and Cobras dies out all values will drop. Big dollars are only exchanged by collector on items that are widely desired and sought after. Original Cobras certainly aren't sought after for their technology and fabrication. I've seen better tubing on lawn chairs. No they are sought after because they are highly desired and few in number. If desire and interest drops so does their value. Nothing special or magic about it.

Buzz: That's fine. Mine is way whiter than yours.