Educating Cobra Buyers?

[Ohio Ken]

This could be a bit tricky... There are owners in several different classes from an an original Cobras, to a continuation, to super performance, era, fact 5, lone star, classic roadsters, etc.
values from over a million dollars to $50-70k, on down to $25k. Some Owners of the higher end cars, are likely to snub owners of the lower end cars.

On the other hand, buyers are also of different economic classes as well. Some will want the most truest representation of an original priced Above $60k, while others can only afford the older less authentic models at $25-30k.

Being that every class of cobra I mentioned still looks like a Cobra, and any carefully built car can run and drive just fine. There will be a buyer thrilled to have an older less authentic cobra for $25, and others happy to lay out $100k

I would not diss anyone wanting to join the hobby at any class level. However, I would not be against warning any buyer of any class that maintenance and good basic repair knowledge is needed and to be Carefull, that these are light weight, hi powered, short wheelbase cars, that require more respect and care when driving over most muscle cars...

Ken
BTW, I own a Classic Roadster $30k range and love it. I would love a Super Performance at over $60k, but just can't swing it. Especially when I have to park it for over 6 months in the winter, and many rainy weekends in the summer.

[mdross1]

Educating a perspective buyer is the right thing to do leaving out the bias for some seems impossible. Real or not Real let's be Real we all cannot own one for many reasons again leave out that bias. So many perspective buyers do not have a clue or care about every detail of the cars history other than the cars looks and mystique.

All we can do for those seeking advise is give them all the information we can to help them make as educated an opinion as possible about a certain car. Without holding their hand or actually being present that is all we can do, otherwise I would give them the "Club Cobra" web site.

[just dreamin]

In my life I have found that giving advise to anyone , on any subject, is a minefield of unknown proportions.
Hindsight is wonderful, and is usually the method used by the potential buyer to asses any advice received by him to thank or hate the advice giver, regardless of his own decision as to buy or not in the end.
If we do give anyone advice it should be of a general nature only. After all we are trying to help by offering an opinion, and that's what it is "only our opinion'.

[xb-60]

Advice can't be forced onto the novice buyer, just like experience can't be 'uploaded' to a buyer who is new to Cobra replicas. That takes time (and disappointment) as most of us know. All we can do is encourage a novice to ask questions and respond on a case-by-case situation. How to make them aware what life should have already taught them, that this or that particular car isn't an unrepeatable bargain, and there's always another one just around the corner? I don't know the answer to that.

Cheers,
Glen

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Doug,

My original post was more to determine whether we as a group of now educated cobra buyers should educate someone just learning about them in regards to what to look for, or what to watch out for. On another forum I had an admin belittle me because I offered an opinion on a car I felt was overpriced for what it was. He pretty much told me that I am single handily bringing down the resale market with my comments/opinion.

As such, I started this thread on all three of the larger Cobra forums to get others opinions as to whether it is ethical for me/us to educate a potential buyer as to what is or what is not a good deal.

Bill S.

I read your "other forum" post. Saw nothing offensive. That other forum is easily riled and fiercely protective of their marque. I've been chastised as well. I've owned one of their kits and the build quality goes from atrocious to perfection. Buyers definitely need to be educated about the various makes so that they can make wise purchases.
You've always expressed your thoughts in a non threatening manner and have helped numerous owners fix or diagnose problems as well as evaluate their purchases.
I know the moderator that chastised you and he's a good guy and a very loyal soldier.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

On another forum I had an admin belittle me because I offered an opinion on a car I felt was overpriced for what it was. He pretty much told me that I am single handily bringing down the resale market with my comments/opinion.

Bill S.

Speaking of ethics, as a moderator, is it ethical to comment on someone else's opinion of the market value of a car? Maybe your comment about market value was in thewrong forum? Maybe this moderator is wonderful person, but he or she is out of touch with being a moderater. Since when does any discussion of market value on any site go out of bounds?

I'd report that moderator to the site owner and tell the site owner, if your opinion is single-handily bringing down the market, then the moderator needs a time out. I have no idea what site you're referring to, but I'd be tempted to tell him or her to go to "you know where."

Did you see Jamo or Computerworks getting involved with moderating market discussions? I think the only time they get involved is when the real vs. replica argument gets out of hand and Evan refers to the SAAC Bible as his reference to legitimize his replica.

[Tommy]

There are some pretty strict rules against commenting on the values of cars for sale over on the Corvette forum. I suspect the forum owners are protecting themselves and recognizing that a lot of their income comes from Corvette professionals who make a living buying low and selling high. But one thing they do not police is private messages. If I think someone in particular is about to make a bad mistake as either buyer or seller, I can alway send him a PM.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Speaking of ethics, as a moderator, is it ethical to comment on someone else's opinion of the market value of a car? Maybe your comment about market value was in thewrong forum? Maybe this moderator is wonderful person, but he or she is out of touch with being a moderater. Since when does any discussion of market value on any site go out of bounds?

I'd report that moderator to the site owner and tell the site owner, if your opinion is single-handily bringing down the market, then the moderator needs a time out. I have no idea what site you're referring to, but I'd be tempted to tell him or her to go to "you know where."

Did you see Jamo or Computerworks getting involved with moderating market discussions? I think the only time they get involved is when the real vs. replica argument gets out of hand and Evan refers to the SAAC Bible as his reference to legitimize his replica.

I know the Admin, he and I have never gotten into much of anything until his public comment on a thread aimed at me, and clearly against the rules as posted for that site. My PM's went unanswered, but I can assume that it took a few days (6 to be exact) for him to see the error in his judgement, as the offending post and all who quoted it have been removed. I hold no ill will towards him, or the other forum, don't want anyone else to either as that was not the point of starting this thread.

Bill S.

[Buzz]

If someone asks on an open forum for opinions about a prospective purchase, then that is exactly what they should be prepared to receive. It's up to them to sift through all of the information they get from a combination of these opinions and their own research in order to arrive at an informed conclusion.

If someone asks for my opinion, I can choose to respond (or not) without accepting any responsibility for what that person decides to do with the information I do or don't provide. That is - as long as I don't represent myself as as an acknowledged expert or authority in that particular field. Once you present yourself as such (as opposed to an ordinary person with some knowledge and experience) then there is some reasonable expectation that the information you supply should at least be factually sound. Even then however, people must be prepared to accept full responsibility for the decisions and choices that they themselves ultimately make.

[olddog]

Bill,

I value your experience and stead fast opinions. Seems to have little bias one way or the other.

I have noticed that people tend to pick a car for sale apart, where if they were the one selling it, they would have a different opinion. Certainly that may be human nature, but you obviously try to ovoid that.

Sellers seem to pop up with ridiculous claims and prices quite frequently. I have never heard of buyers advertising they want to pay ridiculously low prices. So I do believe that buyers need protection from unscrupulous sellers. I have no sympathy for the predators.

I do not believe one man can impact a market.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

I know the Admin, he and I have never gotten into much of anything until his public comment on a thread aimed at me, and clearly against the rules as posted for that site. My PM's went unanswered, but I can assume that it took a few days (6 to be exact) for him to see the error in his judgement, as the offending post and all who quoted it have been removed. I hold no ill will towards him, or the other forum, don't want anyone else to either as that was not the point of starting this thread.

Bill S.

If you hold no "ill will," then you're a better person than me. The person had an error in judgement, aimed an offensive remark to you and didn't answer your PM's. Then removes the offending remarks and everything related to it, as if nothing ever happened, and never once responded to you with an apology.

I'd be at least a little miffed, though I'd quickly get over it.

[Tommy]

The famous Stanford Prison Guard Study showed the dark side of human behavior when some people are put in positions of authority over others. If no one has yet studied the behavior of Internet forum moderators, its only a matter of time before they do. I doubt that the results will surprise me.

[Joe's Garage]

Lord Acton, 1834-1902
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Speaking of ethics, as a moderator, is it ethical to comment on someone else's opinion of the market value of a car? Maybe your comment about market value was in thewrong forum? Maybe this moderator is wonderful person, but he or she is out of touch with being a moderater. Since when does any discussion of market value on any site go out of bounds?

I'd report that moderator to the site owner and tell the site owner, if your opinion is single-handily bringing down the market, then the moderator needs a time out. I have no idea what site you're referring to, but I'd be tempted to tell him or her to go to "you know where."

Did you see Jamo or Computerworks getting involved with moderating market discussions? I think the only time they get involved is when the real vs. replica argument gets out of hand and Evan refers to the SAAC Bible as his reference to legitimize his replica.

No...in fact hell no you won't see us interfering with the open market. I am a firm believer in evolution as god/allah/jehova and the jungle intended...survival of the fittest. If a lion's chasing us, I only need to run faster than you, or more likely, given my slow ass, trip you. I believe in the dynamics of a certain amount of morons to feed the kitty while the rest of us move on. I'm tired of slowing down the rotation of the earth to wait and help those who are too stupid to fend for themselves and ask questions first before they jump.

I have, and will continue to, answer questions from folks that have a true desire to learn. I teach college students as a hobby and for fun...I weed out the folks that will waste the time of the rest of the students before the deadline to drop classes.

So no...I don't think anyone here or this site owes a damn thing to those who won't fend for themselves and do the research. For those folks...let them use public transportation once they lose their ass on a bad purchase. Damn country is turning into an entitlement den.

That being said...I said it.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Lord Acton, 1834-1902
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

"It's good to be king." Mel Brooks

[750hp]

Originally Posted by Jamo

I am a firm believer in evolution as god/allah/jehova and the jungle intended...survival of the fittest. If a lion's chasing us, I only need to run faster than you, or more likely, given my slow ass, trip you. I believe in the dynamics of a certain amount of morons to feed the kitty while the rest of us move on. I'm tired of slowing down the rotation of the earth to wait and help those who are too stupid to fend for themselves and ask questions first before they jump.

Best response ever! Jamo, I need to memorise this and say it at the next departmental meeting at work. People will either want to shout me a beer or fire me...

[750hp]

I like to help those who appreciate some advice, guidance, or simply another point of view. I will stop helping someone when it feels like I'm the one doing the homework/research instead of them.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by 750hp

Best response ever! Jamo, I need to memorise this and say it at the next departmental meeting at work. People will either want to shout me a beer or fire me...

I agree

[mrmustang]

"Is it true what they say about the way you people are gifted? Zzzzzzzip! Oh it's Twue.... it's twue.... it's twue!" Lili Von Shtupp

Originally Posted by Jamo

"It's good to be king." Mel Brooks

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it" John Acton

[Mother]

In truth, I believe that if advice is given on the purchase of any Cobra, there also has consideration as to the owner's ability to safely handle the power to weight ratio of their desired purchase.

Another consideration is that nobody sells a dream unless they are tired of the problems that pop up in ownership of any vehicle.