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-   ALL COBRA TALK (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/)
-   -   Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument? (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/all-cobra-talk/134697-why-does-every-thread-here-devolve-into-real-vs-replica-argument.html)

RodKnock 10-26-2015 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1368905)
It was Evan who used the term "futile." That is what it is like to attempt to reason with a potato. There's no point.
It’s interesting that you picked a potato for your food comparison to Evan. That’s perfect. Potatoes are a starchy food to be avoided due since it's all about high-glycemic carbohydrates. High glycemic carbohydrates are those that raise blood sugar too rapidly.

Like Evan. :LOL: Of course, I'm just kidding around.

RodKnock 10-26-2015 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1368750)
In fact some aluminum Continuation values are not far off from your "COB's".
So, here's CSX4334, which is/was advertised on CobraCountry as an aluminum bodied car.

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/pict...=14343&thumb=1

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/pict...=14344&thumb=1

Sold for $150,000 or best offer.

Maybe the "fit out" adds another $90,000 or something? :eek:

I didn't think COB's were selling for $150,000. What are COB's selling for these days?

REAL 1 10-26-2015 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedsel (Post 1368905)
It was Evan who used the term "futile." That is what it is like to attempt to reason with a potato. There's no point.

Dream on, Evan.
Hey, I don't have to dream. Its right in the Registry. Maybe you need to dream about a new Registry saying something you want it to say.

As far as being unable to reason with potatoes,...Yeah, exactly that why I gave up on Rodknock.

It's also futile to reason with an obfuscator and "curator" with an axe to grind based on a bias against something. My axe is grinding in of the Registry statements published by your club.

And if you think I'm a potato you need to start "educating" all your buddies at SAAC on the Registry committee since based on the statements all through your clubs Registry acknowledging the current production Shelbys as authentic Cobras and not "replicas or Kits" and their Web Site statements doing the same since 2004 and now seems like you've got a lot of potatoes running around on that Registry committee. :LOL:

Dream of a new Registry. :LOL:

RodKnock 10-26-2015 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1368918)
Hey, I don't have to dream. Its right in the Registry.
You mean it's all there in the Registry, which uses terms like "Cobra-like" and "true replica"? That Registry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1368918)
As far as being unable to reason with potatoes,...Yeah, exactly that why I gave up on Rodknock.
You know what they say, you are what you eat. And since I don't eat potatoes, then I can't be one. :p

You gave up on me? I'll "wear it" as a badge of honor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1368918)
And if you think I'm the potato you need to start "educating" all your buddies at SAAC on the Registry committee since based on the statements all through your clubs Registry acknowledging the current production Shelbys as authentic Cobras and their Web Site statements doing the same since 2004 then and now you've got a lot of potatoes running around on that Registry committee. :LOL:

Dream of a new Registry. :LOL:
Coming to Amazon.com around 2018. The 5th Edition of Registry will remove all replicas. Yea!

Oh, and does the current SAAC website state any words like "authentic", "real" or "genuine" as it relates to the Shelby replicas? Nope. Not there anymore. And the Registry is quite clear about those words "Cobra-like" and "true replica."

Different company, different parts, different era. Shall we "call a spade a spade?"

NewYorkGuy 10-26-2015 03:21 PM
Vintage racing?
 
Off topic but do vintage racing events at Goodwood or Monterey allow CSX 4000s or kirkham cobras to compete?

LMH 10-26-2015 03:37 PM
If anyone finds an original COB for $150,000, please let me know!! COX too!

As I've said before, the whole argument about what is or isn't a replica is silly. There are only originals and replicas.

So where did the modern CSX cars come from? The bodies/chassis came from Kirkham for the aluminum cars. Kirkham used CSX3104 as the original to copy. So Kirkhams are replicas of CSX3104, as are the aluminum CSX cars. Where did the fiberglass cars come from? Well, I'm told Shelby used CSX3057 to copy for the fiberglass cars. So they are replicas of CSX3057. Interesting story about 3057 too. Might want to check into that!
Larry

RodKnock 10-26-2015 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMH (Post 1368925)
If anyone finds an original COB for $150,000, please let me know!! COX too!
Larry
I tried looking for a recent sale, but couldn't find one easily. Hagerty's webiste has the value range from Condition #4 at $410,000 to Condition #1 at $740,000, as of August 2015.

I don't know if Hagerty represents current value or not, but if it does, the CSX4000 has a LOOOOOOOOOOG way to go before it hits that kind of money.

ERANJ 10-26-2015 04:00 PM
I guess one of the "dumb jurors" that was referred to in earlier threads :).

Which ones, most all of them. Take a subjective look at all the oppossing threads. He is not stating anything false nor overstating his position based on the content of the Registry. He is simply stating the Continuation Series are not part of the original 3000 Series but the original manufacturer continuing production of a Shelby Cobra.

Dimis 10-26-2015 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1368901)
How about just go with the World Registry. It's very clear in it's statements.

I'm good with that.
Yes, but your conclusions are at odds with the co-author of said publication and he has indeed quoted from that same reference to highlight your incorrect interpretation of those facts. :confused:

Can you actually NOT see this, or are you choosing to NOT to see this? %/

You never did say if you've read Shakespear's "A Man for All Seasons..."


Take care and best wishes.

ERANJ 10-26-2015 04:09 PM
Interesting that you referenced Hagerty. Just noticed that they include CSX 4000 under the same category as 1965 2000 and 3000 series cars. Aluminum cars well over 200K.

RodKnock 10-26-2015 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERANJ (Post 1368933)
Which ones, most all of them. Take a subjective look at all the oppossing threads. He is not stating anything false nor overstating his position based on the content of the Registry. He is simply stating the Continuation Series are not part of the original 3000 Series but the original manufacturer continuing production of a Shelby Cobra.
Well, yes he is. Right off the bat, the original company ceased to exist when Venture purchased a 75% stake in the new venture and then subsequently IPO'ed the new company. So, the original company no longer makes the Shelby CSX replicas. That's just one falsehood. That's being objective.

And a car built using different materials by a different company in a different era and delivered to the consumer in a considerably different fashion is a REPLICA.

ERANJ 10-26-2015 04:44 PM
May have to fact check this....is that any different than Chrysler going bankrupt being acquired by Fiat (not sure how the stock changed?) and essentially Chrylser corperation become a new company. So, the original company (CJD) no longer makes the Dodge Challenger replicas?

And the Challengers built using different materials (since the 1970s) by a different company (original Dodge) in a different era and delivered to the consumer in a considerably different fashion is a REPLICA Challenger. Both come with MSO form Dodge/Camaro and Shelby.

Only one that would hold true is Ford with Shelby Mustang GT350/500 or GT40 for that matter.

ERANJ 10-26-2015 04:46 PM
Only one that wouldn't hold true is Ford with Shelby Mustang GT350/500 or GT40 for that matter?

JBCOBRA 10-26-2015 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERANJ (Post 1368942)
Only one that wouldn't hold tru

e is Ford with Shelby Mustang GT350/500 or GT40 for that matter?
Ok Evan

ERANJ 10-26-2015 04:56 PM
Not Evan.

Joe's Garage 10-26-2015 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMH (Post 1368742)
Not the same, keep history accurate. We've been over this before.
AC Cars Ltd did not supply SAI with bodies and chassis. In general terms for the CSX series cars, AC Cars sent SAI complete cars less engine and transmission assemblies. The cars were set up and engineered for the drivetrain in England but installed at SAI in the states. Cars had suspension, steering, brakes, wiring, wheels, tires, paint, interior, etc.
While Kirkham may supply current SA with bodies and chassis that are built into current CSX cars, it's not the same or similar to how the original cars were built.
Continue.
Larry
Sounds to me like the current CSX cars are true-replicas of the AC Cars exported to Shelby - right down to being complete cars less engine and transmission. It's a subtle distinction to make, but if one is going to be accurate, the current CSX cars do not replicate a "finished" Shelby Cobra, they replicate the nearly completed AC Cobras from England. Same general "assembly process", followed by a different company 30 years later, with a different body & chassis supplier, and where the "buyer" versus "Shelby" completes the car with engine and transmission.

Make sense?

Evan, know that your reply will go directly to the circular file, I'm looking for a credible response to this reasoning.

JBCOBRA 10-26-2015 05:04 PM
Ok Evan's wife or is this the Caitlyn version of Evan?
Nothing derogatory intended. People's sexual preference means nothing to me.

It just seems bizarre to me that you could just show up on the scene having joined in 2011 with only a handful of posts. No car no pictures, no posts, nothing. No previous comments or anything.

Show us a picture of your car. Should be in ERA of some sort. So let's see it

twobjshelbys 10-26-2015 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERANJ (Post 1368941)
May have to fact check this....is that any different than Chrysler going bankrupt being acquired by Fiat (not sure how the stock changed?) and essentially Chrylser corperation become a new company. So, the original company (CJD) no longer makes the Dodge Challenger replicas?

And the Challengers built using different materials (since the 1970s) by a different company (original Dodge) in a different era and delivered to the consumer in a considerably different fashion is a REPLICA Challenger. Both come with MSO form Dodge/Camaro and Shelby.

Only one that would hold true is Ford with Shelby Mustang GT350/500 or GT40 for that matter.
Jaguar is in the process of building 6 brand spanking new 1964 e-type lightweight cars. Jaguar refers to them as continuation cars. Each will be built to the specificaion of the last Lightweight E-Type delivered in 1964. (Note this statement from the press release makes no mention of "new old stock" parts, these are NEW vehicles using NEW recreation parts.) The cars will carry the unused Lightweight E-type chassis numbers.

Now, because Ford owned Jaguar, does that really make these cars just lowly Fords? How dare they try to deceive the public, for $1M+ each, on these lowly "replicas".

Go ahead, please go to the Jaguar forums and try to make the same arguments you are making here and see how long they will last. Good luck.

JBCOBRA 10-26-2015 05:13 PM
Two
You NEED to do some homework

LMH 10-26-2015 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL 1 (Post 1368887)
Ned: Not connected? Really. Your clubs registry states SAI has continued in existence since 1968. That's a fact. Carroll was connected with the original Cobras. But for him they wouldn't exist. So a Ferrari today is not a Ferrari because Enzo is dead and the employees who made Ferrari's in the 50's and 60's no longer are around and manufacturing processes are different etc...? Really???? Ok. That makes sense. :rolleyes: That would apply to any manufacturer that was around back then and is around today. Talking about fools yours is a fools argument. Hey, if the shoe fits.

Who the hell needs AC? AC made the chassis and bodies for the original Shelby Cobra. The major design changes and improvement that made the Cobra a Cobra came at the direction of SAI. AC was the fabricator for the most part. SAI owns the rights to the name and marks and it was their name and mark back then and now. SAI historically also did plenty of fabrication then and now.

But for value I'd rather a have a current production Shelby Cobra. Much better car.

Whether the current production Cobras are exact to original standards or close is irrelevant. You and your friends can wallow in that minutia all day long. It matters not a wit to the issue.

And you will also note that your Clubs Registry notes expressly the current production Cobras as "authentic" Cobras and identifies them as such in more than one location. Very charitable indeed. Thank you. I guess they "charitably" did that in 2004 and right through the Registry. You also noted it was Shelby who referred to them for legal reasons as Component Cobras not SAAC. But for federal regulations Carroll would have not used "component" either. Go ahead look silly and tell me differently.

All we need is Shelby American for the current production Cobras. Don't need your charity either. We have the facts. If the majority of SAAC board members are like you and want to ignore history and ongoing history just drop the Continuation series from the club and Registry.

If your club is going to change it's stance to humor your own personal animus and bias don't be surprised that when your club looks to track the Continuation series and obtain info for it's next Registry continuation owners tell your club to kiss their asses. It's also a good way to alienate a lot of club members. But hey if it makes Ned the curator personally happy and if that's more important to your club then you guys go right ahead.

Won't change the facts though.

Oh yeah. Almost forgot. I am grinding an axe. It's clear. No qualms admitting it. I am protecting the current production Cobras from being knocked and demeaned from guys with sour grapes and pompous asses who only want the original series to be the only authentic Cobra on the block. You grind your axe. I'll grind mine.

P.S. I'd be willing to bet my Continuation Cobra will likely be worth near what your COB is in a few years. Must really burn your derriere.

P.S. P.S. This response if for the rest of you guys too. Can't respond to each of you. Too many here on this thread. I believe I covered though. Have a great day.

Got to love a guy who tells the worlds foremost expert on Cobras and their history how wrong he is! Go Evan!
Larry


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