Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[Nedsel]

Regrettably, it is the Shelby organization that committed the fraud, not the buyers of their product. One has to wonder about marketing tactics that beg the law to look the other way so cars could be sold as something they clearly were not. And this is not a case of not being able to say nice things about my old friend Carroll - it's simply stating the facts.

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

When is early? Give me a date. The only valid response has 4 digits

I could be wrong, but I believe that when California passed the sb100 smog exemption in 2001, it gave all kit cars a way to be registered (and taxed) based on the year they were completed rather than the year of the engine or body style. So, a replica built in 2008 coukd be registered as a 2008 SPCNS, not a 1965 cobra. It was California's way of collecting larger fees and allowing non 60's vehicles to be correctly registered. It is considered fraud if this policy is violated. However, if a vehicle was previously registered LEGALLY (not misrepresented in any way) in another State as a 1965 cobra, that registration would be transferred and honored by Calif. when coming into the State.
Not sure if previously registered Calif. kit cars were grandfathered in. I don't think so.
Anyhoo, it seems to be a gray area. I have heard of local law enforcement walking through car shows checking license plates against registration and impounding vehicles that were incorrect. If it were me, and I owned one of these "1965" registered cars, I would go through the sb100 process and change my registration to comply with current California laws. I wouldn't want my car impounded and then have to go through the hassle of trying to prove it was correctly registered. No telling how much damage would be done by the tow truck or the impound lot.

[NewYorkGuy]

[quote=jhv48;1366946]I could be wrong, but I believe that when California passed the sb100 smog exemption in 2001, it gave all kit cars a way to be registered (and taxed) based on the year they were completed rather than the year of the engine or body style. So, a replica built in 2008 coukd be registered as a 2008 SPCNS, not a 1965 cobra. It was California's way of collecting larger fees and allowing non 60's vehicles to be correctly registered. It is considered fraud if this policy is violated. However, if a vehicle was previously registered LEGALLY (not misrepresented in any way) in another State as a 1965 cobra, that registration would be transferred and honored by Calif. when coming into the State. ...QUOTE]

yup. yup, that's how Cali Cops busted/arrested Hot Rod Builder Boyd Coddington.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Wrong. My Cobra was registered as a 1965 Shelby Cobra. Would you like to see a copy of the title?

Subtract bada bing.

Wow, you actually think what some dumb clerk decided to put on the registration means something lol.

The truth is you or the original owner went through a specialty constructed vehicle, component car, kit car or replica PROCESS to get your registration. What your registration says is irrelevant, different states say different things for the same car. AL G's registration in VA says 1965 Shelby Cobra, but in the comments block it says Replica.

The PROCESS in NJ where that other fruitcake registered his car -

You call the NJ special titles division
You ask them to send you the "kit car package"
You follow the instructions
You trailer the car down to a specialty inspection station
You pass, you get registered
How was the car registered? By following the NJ kit car registration process

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

According to Robert Morgester:

"Today the California Attorney General’s office has filed two criminal complaints."

Date of post was November 2, 2007.

Thank you! Now that wasn't very hard was it? We can infer (which may not be legitimage) that no new titles were issued after that data (and perhaps somewhat earlier than that).

But those dates provide a barrier date.

The date on my CA title 7/12/2008 for registration expiration and 7/31/08 for issue date. The fees were $17. So this title was clearly issued AFTER those actions.

How?

I suspect it is partly related to the origin of the car - it was originally sold/titled/licensed in Mexico so came with a title that probably also was for a 1965 Shelby. I think they are obliged to propagate it.

There was no SB100 documentation on the car either. I think it was underway by then.

I too wondered how this could have been done, but it was.

Whether or not the title is viewed by you as "proper" it was issued by the state of CA and was recognized by the State of Colorado.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Hmmm. Evan seems to think he has "shown me the door." Well, I guess he must have. He was astute enough to point out that I seem to have a bias towards the CSX 3000 cars over the CSX 4000 models. I confess, he is right: I prefer the historic Cobras of the 60's to the more modern copies. Guess I must be crazy.

The facts remain as follows: The cars that created the Cobra mystique - the 998 Cobras referred to as genuine, original, and legitimate - were built in the 1960's by the mutual partnership of AC Cars and Shelby American. Everything that followed was a copy in one form or another. Go down the list and name your brand, from Arntz to Butler to Contemporary, etc - they are all facsimiles of the original, and were marketed as such. Some are pretty good copies while some are less so. Regardless, if your Cobra-like automobile wasn't built in the 60's, it is not one of the 998 original cars, hence it must be something else. Such as a replica of one of the original Cobras. It simply can not be anything else, no matter how many different ways you attempt to spin it.

Thanks for admitting your personal bias. It is patent. You say "copy", I say as does your Club and the Registry "Continuation" and genuine Cobra. Not an original series agreed 100% but a genuine Cobra none the less. Them there are the facts. No question the most coveted are the original series. Not arguing about that.

Hell, CSX 2001 was a copy of CSX 2000 and so forth and so on if we want to argue.

In fact I could make a very compelling argument that my CSX has more Shelby DNA than your COX.

[REAL 1]

The title on the previous page is clear erroneous. There is no way the car could have been titled first in 1965. Clearly. It should be corrected but dealing with DMV employees and "explaining" the anomaly in the CSX MSO would be a challenge at best.

So, now the insult of the day is "fruitcake".

Can't win with facts just hurl insults. 3 graders do it all the time.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Wow, you actually think what some dumb clerk decided to put on the registration means something lol.

The truth is you or the original owner went through a specialty constructed vehicle, component car, kit car or replica PROCESS to get your registration. What your registration says is irrelevant, different states say different things for the same car. AL G's registration in VA says 1965 Shelby Cobra, but in the comments block it says Replica.

The PROCESS in NJ where that other fruitcake registered his car -

You call the NJ special titles division
You ask them to send you the "kit car package"
You follow the instructions
You trailer the car down to a specialty inspection station
You pass, you get registered
How was the car registered? By following the NJ kit car registration process

Thanks. Now I know how the state of NJ does it. That is not how CO, AZ and NV do it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by jhv48

However, if a vehicle was previously registered LEGALLY (not misrepresented in any way) in another State as a 1965 cobra, that registration would be transferred and honored by Calif. when coming into the State.

The old "full faith and credit" between states. However, I believe CA stopped that some years ago with SB811. According to Robert Morgester in 2009, there was a bill that essentially stated that CA will honor the VIN and title, but they will not accept the year as 1965 because then the loophole would allow a ton of polluting SPCNS cars into CA. And CA didn't want a massive loophole, besides the 500 exemptions each year, for our "gross polluters."

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

"SECTION 1. Section 4750.2 is added to the Vehicle Code, to read:

4750.2. Notwithstanding Section 4304 or 4750.1, if the
application for registration of a vehicle previously registered
outside this state is for a specially constructed vehicle, as defined
in Section 580, the vehicle is subject to emission control and
inspection requirements applicable to the same calendar year that the
vehicle was originally constructed as a specially constructed
vehicle, unless otherwise modified by Section 44017.4 of the Health
and Safety Code."


CA: out of state SPCN and emission testing

[trularin]

LOL

Is there an argument?

[trularin]

BTW, in MI it is an "Assembled Roadster".

They give the frame a VIN and you are good to go.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Thanks for admitting your personal bias. It is patent. You say "copy", I say as does your Club and the Registry "Continuation".

Hell, CSX 2001 was a copy of CSX 2000 and so forth and so on if we want to argue.

In fact I could make a very compelling argument that my CSX has more Shelby DNA than your COX.

Evan, you persist in banging the same tired old drum. In a Cobra, Shelby DNA means nothing absent AC Cars DNA, other than to illustrate that the car must be a recreation. And the argument that anything following job #1 on an assembly line is a copy is hackneyed and trite. Surely you can do better. That your car is a copy is not being debated, but a copy of what? The recreation that preceded it.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

The Facts: All 50 states require special provisions for DMV registration. All 50 states classify them as specialty constructed vehicles/component cars/kit cars/replicas.

The Law: Trade Dress ruling per Judge Walsh, the Shelby continuations hold no distinction over the other replicas. Mr. Shelby identified the replicas of the Cobra 427 S/C with the designation CSX 4000.

The Registry: Continuations are very cobra like and true replicas.

The Facts, The Law, The Registry.

Bada Bing, Bada Boom, Done!

Move along folks, there's nothing more to see here.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Thank you! Now that wasn't very hard was it? We can infer (which may not be legitimage) that no new titles were issued after that data (and perhaps somewhat earlier than that).

But those dates provide a barrier date.

The date on my CA title 7/12/2008 for registration expiration and 7/31/08 for issue date. The fees were $17. So this title was clearly issued AFTER those actions.

How?

I suspect it is partly related to the origin of the car - it was originally sold/titled/licensed in Mexico so came with a title that probably also was for a 1965 Shelby. I think they are obliged to propagate it.

There was no SB100 documentation on the car either. I think it was underway by then.

I too wondered how this could have been done, but it was.

Whether or not the title is viewed by you as "proper" it was issued by the state of CA and was recognized by the State of Colorado.

Tony, you really need to check your attitude at the door.

The date that I posted (11/02/2007) is when the first 2 criminal cases were filed by the AG. I have no idea when the actual law, or a law, was enacted. But whether your old CSX got through the system or not, and the Mexican origin helped or not, CA considers it illegal since it CLEARLY WAS NOT BUILT IN 1965.

And also completely irrelevant to the discussion of replica, since titles are handled differently in all 50 states. But if you love a tangent, please proceed. Whatever makes you warm and fuzzy and gets you to sleep each night.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

So, now the insult of the day is "fruitcake".

Everyone, let's not insult each other. We're adults who can debate the issue(s) without the nonsense. Thanks.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

I really like those Speedster replicas...

Me too, but I would probably not own one. While SAAC separates the modern Shelby replicas from the original 1960's cars, PCA (Porsche Club of America) doesn't let replica owners into any of their shows or meets. You park your Speedster replica in the parking lot with the Camrys and Accords.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

The facts remain as follows: The cars that created the Cobra mystique - the 998 Cobras referred to as genuine, original, and legitimate - were built in the 1960's by the mutual partnership of AC Cars and Shelby American. Everything that followed was a copy in one form or another. Go down the list and name your brand, from Arntz to Butler to Contemporary, etc - they are all facsimiles of the original, and were marketed as such. Some are pretty good copies while some are less so. Regardless, if your Cobra-like automobile wasn't built in the 60's, it is not one of the 998 original cars, hence it must be something else. Such as a replica of one of the original Cobras. It simply can not be anything else, no matter how many different ways you attempt to spin it.

As jhv48 once said "The End."

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Everyone, let's not insult each other. We're adults who can debate the issue(s) without the nonsense. Thanks.

Well alright, already a self admitted "orange" so I didn't think it was that bad

Hi New Jersey DMV, I have a Shelby Continuation I would like to register here, how do I go about doing that?

It's pretty simple -
You call the NJ special titles division
You ask them to send you the "kit car package"
You follow the instructions
You trailer your car down to a specialty inspection station
You pass, you get registered

Cool! What will it be registered as?
It all depends on the clerk, it could be whatever you and the clerk decide. But our records will show it was registered using the kit car registration process.

AWESOME, thanks!

[trularin]

Here the state police came over and did the check in my driveway.

They loved it. They even offered to pace it at 30 against their certified speedo. I was dead on.

Two cars came with five troopers. Very nice people.

[RodKnock]

I wish to give a special "shout out" to Jamo, for making this thread a sticky and providing us safe playground in which to play. Thank you.